Of course I believe as Jesus said...that we can know on this side of eternity the truth. We don't have to wait.

"on this side of eternity". I like that. I wonder what lies on the 'other side' of eternity? As Shakespeare said, “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” It must be something wonderful, if God is involved. Something that makes good sense of our harsh lives on earth.

But I agree that we see thru the glass darkly. It won't become all clear on this side of eternity. We can only go by what has been given us.

God has given us some maps, for sure. The Bible is one them. Has God provided us with anything else? I believe that He's given us wisdom, seated within our souls. And our conscious minds can get in touch with the soul's wisdom, when it’s ready.

I'm here. But for some reason only can see the last response which is your's Andy #101. So I can't comment on whatever was previously written.

If you look at the bottom of the last comment you will see First Previous 1 2 3. Either go to Previous or 2. You didn't automatically see what came before because this thread is on its third page worth of comments.

Gee Thanks Jill Oh ya...gotcha.....still a newbie.....can you tell?

Has God provided us with anything else? I believe that He's given us wisdom, seated within our souls

Well I would say the Holy Spirit. That's what he promised us before he ascended. He said he would leave us the comforter or another name is helper. This is what governs my life and helps me. Without the HS I would not be able to make sense of his word. Before it was only a book...with the HS it comes alive. That's why it's said the bible is the only book where the author is right there with you as you read it. And one cannot make sense of this book without the helper.

Wisdom is the principle thing, and there is no wisdom against God. I believe God is wisdom and the beginning of wisdom is acknowledging God. Do you know the story of Solomon? His request? Wisdom. His request was granted. God likes it when we ask for Wisdom. He says when we ask he will give it.

on this side of eternity". I like that. I wonder what lies on the 'other side' of eternity

Depends on what you believe on "this side of eternity."

Depends on what you believe on "this side of eternity."

whatever we believe, we won't change 'the Truth', which exists regardless of our beliefs. It's therefore in our own interests to ensure that our beliefs and views are aligned with 'What Is So', as much as we can. I personally believe that God doesn't give a hoot what we believe. God remains infinitely secure regardless, loves us unconditionally, and knows that we're all destined to find out sooner or later anyway.

Well I would say the Holy Spirit. That's what he promised us before he ascended. He said he would leave us the comforter or another name is helper. This is what governs my life and helps me. Without the HS I would not be able to make sense of his word. Before it was only a book...with the HS it comes alive. That's why it's said the bible is the only book where the author is right there with you as you read it. And one cannot make sense of this book without the helper. Wisdom is the principle thing, and there is no wisdom against God. I believe God is wisdom and the beginning of wisdom is acknowledging God. Do you know the story of Solomon? His request? Wisdom. His request was granted. God likes it when we ask for Wisdom. He says when we ask he will give it.

Yes, I completely agree with all of that KFC. That's very well said. Clearly you're well acquainted with the Holy Spirit!

I think Mrs. Darwin (Emma) really carried the brains in the family cuz she believed in God and not in her husband's theory.

Please take this as constructive criticism: When giving an opinion on intellect, saying "carried the brains" and "cuz" in the sentence doesn't lead to credibility.

back on topic:

I have never understood why people believe that the world couldn't have been created by a "god" then evolved from there.

One of the gaping holes that I find in the bible is the way the Earth is described as being created.  What about the dinosaurs?  Why is there no mention of them and what happened to the Earth to make them extinct?

My take is that the Earth was created by something that we can not grasp (just like- what is at the end of space?).  Species evolved from something that was created, and we end up to where we are now. 

Please take this as constructive criticism: When giving an opinion on intellect, saying "carried the brains" and "cuz" in the sentence doesn't lead to credibility.

Thanks for the help...for me writing on the blogs is sort of like sitting around in big fuzzy slippers. All sense of style goes out the window when you just want to be comfy...besides...most of the time I'm on late and I'm just not thinking about my grammer for sake of quickness. The "cuz" I picked up from my Son who is a Scientist and he scored a perfect 800 on his GRE. Probably the IM generation, KWIM?

One of the gaping holes that I find in the bible is the way the Earth is described as being created. What about the dinosaurs? Why is there no mention of them and what happened to the Earth to make them extinct?

There is mention of them. Do you want me to show you? To do so I haveta (there I go again) quote a verse and that seems to be a no no around here. Say the word and I will...
But ya I believe in the dinos. If I fill your hole here will you at least read the book?

Species evolved from something that was created, and we end up to where we are now.

If you notice....only after their own kind...again just as scripture said would happen. I've never planted a tomato and got a fish.

My take is that the Earth was created by something that we can not grasp

But Kharma...where do you base this on? Where is your foundation? While I agree that we cannot fully "know" God, he desires that we have a relationship with him. One of his attributes is love. What is God without a people to love? He created us so that He could love us.

I personally believe that God doesn't give a hoot what we believe

Ok Andy...a challange....look at John 3:15-18 underline the word believe. What does that tell you?

God remains infinitely secure regardless, loves us unconditionally, and knows that we're all destined to find out sooner or later anyway.

well said.....I agree.

 

Probably the IM generation, KWIM?

I work at the company that makes this site.  Trust me, older people using L337$p33k just doesn't work.  If you want people to take what you say seriously, then you need to present it in a well written form.  When chatting with friend on IM, sure, it's fine.  But, when discussing major points in discussion forums, it just doesn't look good.

There is mention of them. Do you want me to show you? To do so I haveta (there I go again) quote a verse and that seems to be a no no around here. Say the word and I will... But ya I believe in the dinos. If I fill your hole here will you at least read the book?

 

What makes you think that I have not read "the book"?  It's a very typical "Christian" reaction to assume that if somebody doesn't agree then they must know nothing about the bible.

I know the scripture that you are talking about.  It refers to tanniyn, behemoth and leviathan. Now, "behemoth" could easily be an elephant or hippo, and has even been translated to such *many* times.  The description of this "creature" is simply too vague.  People like to believe that the phrase "He is the first of the ways of God" must mean that the behemoth had to be larger than an elephant (or "largest creature", therefore it must have been a dinosaur, but that is all just wild interpretation.

Then there is tanniyn and leviathan, which are both described as fire breathing creatures.  Their description is more like a tall tale than anything.  Since when did dinosaurs swim in the sea and breath fire?

Of course, then you have the whole issue of man and animals being created on the 6th night, which was believed to be about 6,000 years ago (according to almost every published Christian work relating to the subject).  With that in mind, how do we explain the oldest skull of a man which is 160,000 years old and the oldest dinosaur fossil which is 230 Million years old (found in Madagascar)? 

But Kharma...where do you base this on? Where is your foundation?

That would be "Karma" not "Kharma".  I base it on my studies in spirituality.  Don't assume that I have no base for my opinions.  I have studied *many* religions and philosophies.  I think that people are too quick to grasp onto the first thing that comforts them.  Instead, I am living my life on a path to enlightenment.  I am trying to see past all the organized brain washing and political agendas to find out what the truth really is.  And, I don't think that it is the bible.  Nobody can prove (or disprove) that the bible is the word of "god".  For anyone knows it may be the work of the "devil" trying to lure the gullible away from the path to god.

I know that Christians don't like to look at it this way, but only about 1/3 of the world can be considered "Christian", and that is if you include Jehovah's Witnesses (which are classified as Christian even though they don't take Jesus as their saviour).  So, what about the other 2/3 of the world?  I guess they all must be wrong, right?

Christianity would be a lot easier to take if the bible was regarded as a handbook, not the pure word of god, and that it is not all knowing and all telling.  Christianity has great teachings and moral standards (if followed), but the bible as the de facto word of "god" just doesn't work for me.  There is too much interpretation by people and too much that just isn't right.

I have no problem with evolution.  I think that it's a great thing.  It means that the world was designed well since it can evolve and better itself.

Ok Andy...a challange....look at John 3:15-18 underline the word believe. What does that tell you?

It tells me that we can afford some healthy breathing space from extreme scriptural fundamentalism. At least it does to me.

KFC, what words of comfort would you give to the struggling soul who reviewed the following book on Amazon.com? (It's the spotlight review at the top, Dated August 24, 1998, entitled "This is without a doubt a MUST read!"). A lot of people have similar views to this person, and I'm interested to hear your views?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1877733075/qid=1138132585/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8102228-3798432?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Hi Andy,

I tried to pull up your review but couldn't find the exact one. So I'm not sure how to respond, but I did read the book excerpt and have a few thoughts.

First I do not believe one can become a Christian, have the HS indwell you and then walk away. I absoultely without a doubt cannot buy this. It would be like walking out of a bright room back into darkness and saying that was a better place to be. Makes no sense. I do not believe this man was regenerated.

Anyone can call themself a Christian. We can call ourselves..anything we want. It doesn't make it so. Heck, I believe our churches are filled with pseudo Christians. These so called Christians are what people are looking at, and they give Christianity a bad name. I've met many.

They are either deceived or deliberately deceiving. I read here that the author was involved in the Charismatic Movement. I call this Charismatic Chaos. They basically get caught up in emotions with their "feel the spirit" mentality. One preacher I heard say....put down the bible and "feel the spirit." That doesn't sound like the voice of God. I've also met people that have come out of this and realized they were deceived. Remember Satan is called the "angel of light." He's very good at what he does. Jesus called him the liar from the beginning. He's the roaring lion seeking whom to devour.

I also noticed that Lee Strobel had included an excerpt of this book in his own book "Case For Faith." I've read that along with "Case For Christ." I highly recommend both. He was an atheist and editor of the Chicago Tribune and his story is amazing.

In his book Strobel wrote about Templeton (also mentioned on above site)and how he was a young dynamic preacher who preached alongside Billy Graham. One day Templeton realized that there was no God and decided to leave preaching. It devastated Graham. He almost left as well thinking if this great preacher did not believe in God, maybe there wasn't a God. He strongly struggled with this until he met God one night in a Garden and the rest is history. I have my own opinion as to what was really going on "behind the scenes."
I am a big believer in spiritual warfare. The war is for men's souls.

So don't know if this is what you want for "view..." but I beieve the whole Christian way is a matter of the heart. Only God can read the heart. It's not about the outside...it's all about the inside.

Karma (sorry about the "h")

What makes you think that I have not read "the book"? It's a very typical "Christian" reaction to assume that if somebody doesn't agree then they must know nothing about the bible.

This would be experience. So are you saying you have? Because you did not say that here. Did you read to really learn it or did you read portions to scoff at it? Makes a big difference.

Leviathan is mentioned in 5 OT texts. In each it refers to some mighty creature who can overwhelm man but is no match for God. Some think it is some sort of sea monster or ancient dino since it lives among ships in the sea. Some say it's a crocodile since it has a scaly hide, terrible teeth and is speedy in water. But a croc does not live in the sea and this definitely does.

The Behemoth would not fit the description of a hippo. When it says.."He moves his tail like a cedar". it hardly fits the description of the short tail of a hippo. Those that say this are like you trying to disprove it. Behemoth is a generic term used in the OT for large cattle or land animal but in the passage in Job it does seem to be a bit out of the ordinary...that's why dinosaur is frequently thought of here.

know that Christians don't like to look at it this way, but only about 1/3 of the world can be considered "Christian", and that is if you include Jehovah's Witnesses (which are classified as Christian even though they don't take Jesus as their saviour). So, what about the other 2/3 of the world? I guess they all must be wrong, right?

Actually I think you are being generous. I would say much less than 1/3 are Chrisitans. And I wouldn't count JW's. I was one. Actually it's only recently they call themselves Christians. I'm not sure why. So yes you're right. We are in the minority. Am I surprised or think we should be otherwise? No. Jesus said..."narrow is the way that leads to eternal life." So actually you just proved scripture to be right here. He also said that not to be surprised if the world hates you because they hated him first. A servant is not greater than his master he said.

So since I believe Jesus at his word I would have to say yes to your question.

Christianity would be a lot easier to take if the bible was regarded as a handbook, not the pure word of god, and that it is not all knowing and all telling. Christianity has great teachings and moral standards (if followed), but the bible as the de facto word of "god" just doesn't work for me

Why is that? Do you think it's to far fetched that the God of the Universe wanted us to have a relationship with him? Do you think he couldn't be bothered by giving us this book and we're just fooling ourselves by believing it? What if you're wrong? Where do you go when you die? Is there a heaven? Is there a hell? Why are we all here? Where are we going and where did we come from?

I admit that I don't have the answers...but I know who does.

Why is that? Do you think it's to far fetched that the God of the Universe wanted us to have a relationship with him? Do you think he couldn't be bothered by giving us this book and we're just fooling ourselves by believing it? What if you're wrong? Where do you go when you die? Is there a heaven? Is there a hell? Why are we all here? Where are we going and where did we come from?

I have read the bible.  I read a lot about a lot of different religions and philosophies in an attempt to be enlightened.  i don't look at any of them with any sort of prejudice.  If you read the bible without somebody interpreting it for you, it reads a lot like Canterbury Tales.  It ends up sounding like a lot of stories recounted by people.

I don't believe that the bible is the book of god.  I don't believe that the pope is anything but a political tool. 

When I die, I'm dead.  Ever been put out for an operation?  It's like that, but you don't wake up.  It's nothing.  The only heaven and hell that exists is on earth in the here and now.  I live life to the fullest I can.  I live a clean, helpful life, and I don't harm anyone.  I live an Earth friendly life, and I am a Vegan.  And, I am perfectly fine with only have the life that I have now.  I am perfectly fine with simply being dead when I die.  I don't need to find comfort with that.  Death is simply the end result of life. 

Why are we here?  We're organisms.  There is no "higher" reason for it.  Why would there be?  What is the point of living forever?  What is that purpose? 

I believe that we were created by something, but I don't believe that there is a "god" that we rejoin after we die.  I don't believe that we can understand what created us (as I mentioned before).

Where are we going when we die?  Into the earth.  We become compost.

But, back on the topic.  I believe that it is very possible that a creator of some sort (doesn't have to be a "god") started everything.  I also believe that it is pompous to think that there isn't a planet someplace out in space that also has living creatures on it.  I believe that we have evolved as the Earth has naturally changed and we have evolved to better our species (and this includes all animals, including humans).  I think that it is very possible that we were created and then evolved.  I don't think that it is an either/or topic.