Constructive gadfly
Published on April 25, 2009 By stevendedalus In Politics

 

 

Fevers were running high in the wake of 9/11, and many high-level officials from the president to CIA bomb-ticking “24” paranoids—to say nothing of amateur sadists at Abu Ghraib —lost control of reason. No amount of rationalization will justify the use of unduly “harsh treatment,” or if you will, “torture.” Granted legitimate POWs are a respectable cut above the thugs of al Qaeda and deserve relatively humane treatment from their captors. Terrorists, however, are not “noble” soldiers defending their country right or wrong. They are murderous fanatics who in battle normally under fire would be killed unless the order to take no prisoners was lifted for the purpose of interrogation, which indeed would be extremely harsh under combat conditions, yet short of methodic torture even though if the captive situation were reversed chances are beheadings would be the end result.

There is understandable ambivalence over the current buzz over the release of the “torture” memos, precisely because the “harsh” treatment was perpetrated on such unsavory characters. Still, we are a nation of laws and not men who occasionally are irrational despite the excuse of 9/11. After all, if there were indisputable evidence that some captives were responsible in the masterminding of violating our country, then a speedy court martial would result in speedy execution, rather than the nonsense of illegally trying to extract relevant information which clearly was not the case or the officials would have uncovered the whereabouts of Killer bin Laden in lieu of such fantasy that the data led to more plots against the nation.

Even if it were true that torture draws reliable intelligence, this nation should be above medieval inquisitions which could also spread to all captives including our own. Those who were allegedly engaged in such unlawful tactics should be reprimanded and a public censure against the previous administration for violating the trust of the people.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Apr 25, 2009

I can't tell...are you serious or is this a satire piece?  I need to know so I can address it properly.

on Apr 25, 2009

I agree with your statements. While the terrorists don't have rights because they give them up, who are we to torture them? We should be civil so that they will be, but be vigilant in case they aren't.

on Apr 25, 2009

We should be civil so that they will be, but be vigilant in case they aren't.

Please cite an example of their benevolence in the treatment levied toward our soldiers (or civilians).

on Apr 25, 2009

If such tactics don't work, why do we send the troops who have a higher than normal probability of capture to "Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape" training?  The stated reason for the SERE course is to increase their ability to resist giving up secrets in case they are captured.

If SERE courses are based on what the troops can expect if captured by the enemy, the Taliban & Al Qaeda SERE candidates must be forced to endure 3 gourmet meals a day, comfortable beds in spacious cells, and be treated with respect lest the press get wind of anything less and hold kangaroo courts against the instructors.

 

on Apr 26, 2009

Please cite an example of their benevolence in the treatment levied toward our soldiers (or civilians).

I can't, but does that justify us mistreating them? Should we mistreat them simply because they mistreat us? Who is the better man then?

on Apr 26, 2009

Sorry for double posting, but it won't edit.

When I say civil, I don't mean luxury. I mean solitary cell, a jail uniform, and bread and water.

on Apr 26, 2009

Nobility is nice.  Until its head is chopped off.

on Apr 26, 2009

They've never done any waterboarding on Jackass.  It would be way too tame.

on Apr 27, 2009

I can't, but does that justify us mistreating them? Should we mistreat them simply because they mistreat us? Who is the better man then?

I guess their people in prison and our dead people can argue who the "bigger" persons are. That will show em. I bet they feel really bad about it right about now.

And after all, sleep deprivation/water boarding/fuzzy caterpillars doesn't work on the dead.

on Apr 27, 2009

I agree with your statements. While the terrorists don't have rights because they give them up, who are we to torture them? We should be civil so that they will be, but be vigilant in case they aren't.

We are not torturing these animals for fun, we do it to get information.

CIVIL? Intill you turn your back, then they will cut your head off.

These blood thirsty fanatics deserve everything they get, and more.

on Apr 28, 2009

Please cite an example of their benevolence in the treatment levied toward our soldiers (or civilians).
Why should he? He wasn't referring to our side being imprisoned by them.

I can't tell...are you serious or is this a satire piece? I need to know so I can address it properly.
You can make it into anything you wish.

These blood thirsty fanatics deserve everything they get, and more.
There's the rub; hundreds have been released because there was no evidence that they were blood "thirsty."

on Apr 28, 2009

SERE is melodramatic nonsense. Torture our own soldiers to experience what it's like to be tortured. If captured by al Qaeda training entails beheading just to feel what it's like, duh?

on Apr 28, 2009

There's the rub; hundreds have been released because there was no evidence that they were blood "thirsty."

And none of them have claimed they were tortured, our records state they were not tortured, the supposed torture was done on three people, all of them talked, all three of them gave us information we needed. If we were as torture happy as we are portrayed then we would be doing it to anyone and everyone we captured. The people were captured and held until their story could be verified and if there was not enough evidence to hold them they were set free. Most were captured or killed on the battlefield they promised they were not apart of months later. Two were water boarded, and one was told he was going to be put in a box with a vicious blood thirsty caterpillar, causing him to spill the beans without even doing it. The ones that had information we wanted to know were interrogated daily over the course of months and years until they broke. The ones we knew had vital information we used enhanced methods like water boarding. This is not a government that last its way or was using 9/11 as an excuse for wholesale torture. Since President Obama declassified what was done and how it was done it seems the panic on the left was not justified. It was not illegal, and to top it off it seems that everything that the previous administration had done was so correct the current administration is continuing the practice. The “illegal “prisons around the world are still in use, rendition is still being used through three administrations. And President Obama is stuck with the same problem President Bush had. We can’t let them go but we don’t want to keep them. The trials that took 7 years to work their way through the courts has been halted by the new administration. This prevents us from jailing or executing or freeing the real bad ones.

I am interested in reading your suggestions for this presidential dilemma.

on Apr 28, 2009

It's no use trying to drive a point home to those that don't consider the ramifications. If we handled prisoners and intelligence as we do now in past wars we would probably be speaking German as our national language now. At the very least there would be less Americans (No A-Bomb...Japan mainland invasion, more fighting the prisoners that were released for good behavior), and more of the enemy (again no A-Bomb, no fire bombing Tokyo, Dresden, others).

Liberals can't get enough self-pity from the Vietnam war defeat (plus the young liberals can't relate to it) they need a new defeat to wallow in. The first Gulf War came and went too fast for the old hippies to mobilize. This is the perfect chance for self-scarification of the nation so a few can claim their own self-righteousness. Doesn't matter the damage it does, or if it weakens the US. The rest of the world will accept us, born again, and not take advantage, right? That attitude shows little regard for human nature and a total disregard for history. My opinion, not bothered if anyone agrees or not.

on Apr 28, 2009

Even if it were true that torture draws reliable intelligence, this nation should be above medieval inquisitions which could also spread to all captives including our own.

No, it cannot "spread".

No terrorist decides to torture an American because of what the CIA does. The terrorists torture anyway, plus their leaders make up stories anyway, so it's quite immaterial what the CIA actually does in that regard.

My personal opinion is that I know that if I ever get kidnapped by terrorists, they will torture and kill me and NOBODY, not the terrorists nor their liberal supporters in the west, will cry or whine or protest. So excuse me if I don't care about the treatment of suspected terrorists by the CIA as long as they survive if unscathed.

I don't think water-boarding qualifies as torture. And I dare any organisation who says that it does qualify as torture to come out and speak up and demand that no aid be sent to Gaza until Gilad Shalit's release. Where are their voices when Jews or Israelis get tortured? Why be worried when terrorists are being tortured? What's so special about them?

I never understood the world-wide outcry over the water-boarding issue. It was as if we live in a world where torture was something non-existent and water-boarding was the worst torture imaginable. Half the countries who criticised the US were known to use (real) torture themselves. And the other half absolutely DON'T CARE about worse torture methods used every day by terrorists and terror-supporting states, but they suddenly cared when the US were accused.

 

 

 

 

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