Creationism & Hubble

on Dec 13, 2004

Well, there is some, but it is nothing conclusive. They are still in the formative stages, trying to decipher what they have, but yes, it does require a certain amount of faith in science to keep looking.

IG

17

Dr Guy

on Dec 13, 2004

Well, there is some, but it is nothing conclusive. They are still in the formative stages, trying to decipher what they have, but yes, it does require a certain amount of faith in science to keep looking.

Aha! So those who will believe have nothing to fear, and those that dont, only have faith to fear! !

18

InfoGeek

on Dec 13, 2004

So those who will believe have nothing to fear, and those that dont, only have faith to fear

I am not sure what you mean. Believe in what? And fear what? Faith should never be feared, only some of the faithful.

IG

19

Dr Guy

on Dec 13, 2004

I am not sure what you mean. Believe in what? And fear what? Faith should never be feared, only some of the faithful.

It means the farther Science pushes back the boundaries of knowledge, there is always that thing that requires a belief. For in the end, I dont think Science can explain it all. just get to the root of the begining. And then what? You see, I am not a bible thumper, but I do believe in God. In the end, something came fiirst, and that is faith. For both religious people, and men of science. They never will find a source. For that is what faith is all about. So when they try to destroy (or subjugate) Christian faith, they wind up just going the faith route from a different angle.

It does not make me right, or them wrong. But then I dont lose sleep over it as I know, and they are trying to prove me wrong. in time they will understand, you cant prove a vacuum.

20

InfoGeek

on Dec 13, 2004

It means the farther Science pushes back the boundaries of knowledge, there is always that thing that requires a belief. For in the end, I dont think Science can explain it all. just get to the root of the begining.

True, science just expands our knowledge of where that beginning is. In the past 100 years we have made great strides in understanding our world, and things that were once thought incomprehensible or impossible are now, while not commonplace at least accepted as part of the norm.

It will be interesting to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. How far will our imagination and science take us?

Is there a stopping point, or just layer after layer of discovery? Are the layers already in existence or does God just keep digging the hole deeper?

Too "grassy knoll"?

IG

21

Dr Guy

on Dec 13, 2004

It will be interesting to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. How far will our imagination and science take us?

Is there a stopping point, or just layer after layer of discovery? Are the layers already in existence or does God just keep digging the hole deeper?

Yes, the onion theory! In the end, it still comes down to 'we dont know'.

And I left off the last line as I dont care to go there. We will know. I just dont know when.

22

InfoGeek

on Dec 13, 2004

Ok, let's say for the sake of argument, that a diety or dieties is/are at the center of the onion.

Question: Do you believe that we as corporeal beings, with the advancement of science, can find the center, or will we need to shuffle off the mortal coil, to slip "the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God"?

IG

23

Dr Guy

on Dec 13, 2004

IG, it is late and you pose a great question. I will revisit it in the morning. Just wanted you to know you are very stimulating, but after hours out in the frigid (My wife and her Xmas decorations!), I am beat!

I will respond soon! Fascinating!

24

stevendedalus

on Dec 14, 2004

Is there a stopping point, or just layer after layer of discovery? Are the layers already in existence or does God just keep digging the hole deeper?

Great probing.

if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?

Perhaps only to collapse upon itself and begin again?

25

Dr Guy

on Dec 14, 2004

Perhaps only to collapse upon itself and begin again?

The 2 theories, expanding forever, and eventually colapsing upon itself, are getting equal footing now. But both are fascinating to think about. IN the first case, that would tend to indicate the big bang was a one time thing (so where did it come from?). The second would indicate that it has happened before and will continue to happen, but what was the catalyst for the very first one? For everything has to have a beginning, unless we get into quantum physics and time warping, which I know nothing about.

Question: Do you believe that we as corporeal beings, with the advancement of science, can find the center, or will we need to shuffle off the mortal coil, to slip "the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God"?

IG

Having slept on this, I feel that eventually man will 'touch the face of God' in time (if we dont kill ourselves off first). But in the end, the eventual knowledge is going to come from a facet that I dont thihnk we are even intelligent enough to imagine yet. Based upon my response to Steven above, perhaps there is no beginning, and we just dont have the capacity to imagine that yet.

But having lived through some fo the most exciting times in human history, I dont put any limitations on what man can accomplish in time. I just dont know what the answer could possibly be. Thinking about it, could make you go crazy with the Chicken and Egg question.

26

InfoGeek

on Dec 14, 2004

Perhaps only to collapse upon itself and begin again?

No, what I mean is: If you drop dough onto a table, it will slowly spread out, pushing back the air that was already there. It is expanding into the air that surrounds it. If the universe is expanding, albeit in three dimensions, what is it expanding into?

IG

27

Dr Guy

on Dec 14, 2004

No, what I mean is: If you drop dough onto a table, it will slowly spread out, pushing back the air that was already there. It is expanding into the air that surrounds it. If the universe is expanding, albeit in three dimensions, what is it expanding into?

Well, by definition, it cant be expanding into anything since 'universe' means all. But I do understand your question, even if I have no idea of the answer.

28

XX

on Dec 16, 2004

No, what I mean is: If you drop dough onto a table, it will slowly spread out, pushing back the air that was already there. It is expanding into the air that surrounds it. If the universe is expanding, albeit in three dimensions, what is it expanding into?

Very good question. But with all we know, we can as well talk about warp drive too. So far I know, humans have probed as far as first seconds of big bang physics but we know nothing about before. About the exterior of universe we know utterly nothing about. Since the border expands at approx light speed we will need to invent FTL drive first, then we can begin to probe the border of universe.

29

stevendedalus

on Dec 16, 2004

Why assume there's a border? Further, the before is equally infinitesimal and paradoxically needs no time except to explode from its speck of space.

30

messybuu

on Dec 16, 2004

Why assume there's a border? Further, the before is equally infinitesimal and paradoxically needs no time except to explode from its speck of space.

Well, if it's expanding, then that means it's not infinite, because how could something that's already everything grow into more than everything unless everything isn't everything?

It means the farther Science pushes back the boundaries of knowledge, there is always that thing that requires a belief. For in the end, I dont think Science can explain it all. just get to the root of the begining. And then what? You see, I am not a bible thumper, but I do believe in God. In the end, something came fiirst, and that is faith. For both religious people, and men of science. They never will find a source. For that is what faith is all about. So when they try to destroy (or subjugate) Christian faith, they wind up just going the faith route from a different angle.

Exactly! Science can only explain what humans can observe. When people say that science proves that God is real or God isn't real, it's not science. It's out of science's jurisdiction. Even if science had an actual theory on what came before the big bang, that still doesn't explain where that stuff came from and so on. Humans just can't understand some things and we need to accept that.