Constructive gadfly
I extend my hand to Fred Thompson for admitting he’s not much for church-going; Biden, too, has guts to say that his belief is his own business and no one else’s. The three top tier Democratic candidates seldom let an utterance go by without some reference to their God as though that would make them stand out among the crowd. It seems to me that the most important belief—an oath actually—is that they will defend the Constitution and show depth in democratic principles. One who is a nonbeliever or simply lukewarm to religion is really irrelevant; for voters should know that in time of crises, a divine power is inevitably invoked. Even a Hitchens on his death bed will supplicate if not God surely, some mysterious power—and I don’t mean the Antichrist—as in the proverbial there are no atheist in foxholes.
Comments (Page 4)
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on Sep 21, 2007
BillW...Nice little mix of fact with fiction there.


Would you care to set the record straight then? What part is fact that you agree with and what part is fiction that you obviously disagree with?

on Sep 21, 2007
Would you care to set the record straight then? What part is fact that you agree with and what part is fiction that you obviously disagree with?


Unless he has deleted them, Parated did a very good series of articles on the Mormom (LDS) faith and you can find them in his blog.
on Sep 21, 2007
Stevendedalus, sorry for hyjacking the thread here, I just couldn't let this tripe go by unchallenged.

Yes, we do believe that God, The Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate individuals, but we don't believe Jesus "became" God when he died. That would mean that He wasn't diety during his life or the atonement.

Secondly, "Women in marriage may join their husbands in their new universe IF the husband calls them after he as become a God." This is just patently wrong. Yes, we believe that marriage can be forever, but it's not a matter of IF he decides to bring her with him.

Billw, if you want to learn FACTS about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I suggest you go to www.lds.org, or talk to actual church members... in fact, I'd suggest that for anyone who wants to learn about any religion, group, organization, movement, etc... Don't talk to someone who heard it from someone's brother's, aunt who used to be Mormon but got pissed off at the church because the bishop didn't smile and say hi one sunday morning.

When you listen to those types, you only come off looking less than knowledgeable... much like you did here.

If you would like to discuss these things further, feel free to IM me on Yahoo Messenger ParaTed2k, or MSN Messenger, ParaTed2k@yahoo.com.
on Sep 21, 2007
Yes, we believe that marriage can be forever


Para, just a question here. How do you believe that marriage can last forever and reconcile that with Christ saying there will be no marriage in heaven?

I'm referring to Matt 22:29-30 specificially.

on Sep 22, 2007
KFC, I do have an answer, but so we don't take Stevendedalus's thread from him completely, IM or Email that question to me.
on Sep 22, 2007
Para, just a question here. How do you believe that marriage can last forever and reconcile that with Christ saying there will be no marriage in heaven?

I'm referring to Matt 22:29-30 specificially.


I'm interested to know the answer as well. Perhaps we can resurrect the Mormon article DrGuy referred? Just a thought.
on Sep 22, 2007
Me too!
on Sep 22, 2007
Can't believe I missed this developing conversation. I guess it's cool you girls will only vote for someone that's Christian, but you do realize that there are more than Christians in our country and that by only supporting a Christian candidate you're excluding those that are not Christians among us, right?

This country is full of diverse peoples, and they don't all believe in the God that you do. You both (KFC and Lula) sound almost like Nazis in your beliefs. We, the people, who defend your rights to practice your freedom of religion, are a little concerned about those of you who believe that this religious freedom is a license that you deserve for existing. It isn't. It's a right that we, the slayers of naysayers grant you. You probably don't think so, but here's a little test for you. Are you dead or imprisoned?

You're welcome.

Life is not as simple as you literal Bible thumpers want to make it. Somebody, somewhere, has to make the place you live in a livable place. I, for one, am sick and tired of sacrificing my freedom so that you thoughtless thumpers can pretend from the safety of your bank accounts and three bedroom houses that you deserve what you have because Jesus loves you.

You want to prove to me your Holiness? (no) Give up everything you have and spend your life helping others. Seriously. Let's hear it Jythier, Lula, KFC....what job do you hold? Is it one that does its utmost to spread the Word of God or is it one that makes the most money for your family? Do you then rationalize, accountant boy, that you're taking care of your family?

Seriously. Which of you self-righteous Christians are doing anything to make things better? Here's a hint. Sitting here on JU talking about obscure bible passages isn't feeding starving children. Do you give your 10 percent? Oh good for you. You're in the clear!
on Sep 22, 2007
OCKHAMSRAZOR POSTS:
I guess it's cool you girls will only vote for someone that's Christian,


Hi Ock,

Welcome aboard this discussion. I'm glad you found it.

Every vote I cast whether it's for the president or for local dog-catcher, I vote according to my conscience, Ock.

Thankfully, in America, unlike Communist Cuba, China, or Korea, we still have this freedom.



on Sep 22, 2007
I guess it's cool you girls will only vote for someone that's Christian, but you do realize that there are more than Christians in our country and that by only supporting a Christian candidate you're excluding those that are not Christians among us, right?


We aren't living in a vacuum, of course I realize there are candidates who are not Christians. I have my own personal voting guidelines..it's based upon my conscience...they must believe in God and in Jesus Christ, they must be demonstrably pro-life and pro-family they don't get my vote.

There are many so-called Christians, including Catholics, like Rudy Guiliani, who fall into the grouping of those whom I would never vote for. Period.

Voting is a freedom, a privilege and a duty, and I'm very discriminating when it comes to placing my vote.

on Sep 22, 2007
they must believe in God and in Jesus Christ, they must be demonstrably pro-life and pro-family they don't get my vote.


I should have written, otherwise, they don't get my vote.
on Sep 22, 2007
There are many so-called Christians, including Catholics, like Rudy Guiliani, who fall into the grouping of those whom I would never vote for. Period.


If we hold Guiliani to those standards (and I am not saying whether we should or should not), I doubt there is any Catholic you would vote for.

Frankly, I would vote for a man who is not Catholic that believes in abortion, and also does not beleive that life begins at conception. If such a man (or woman) was a non-christian, that would not matter. I would be hard pressed to vote for any person (Catholic or not) that beleives life begins at conception and believes in abortion as well.
on Sep 22, 2007
This country is full of diverse peoples, and they don't all believe in the God that you do.


This is true, but what does this have to do with my freedom to vote according to my conscience?

Conversely, you, and every other AMerican voter has the same freedom to vote for whomever they want.

You both (KFC and Lula) sound almost like Nazis in your beliefs.


WHAT? Now come the labels....claiming that voting according to one's conscience is "almost like Nazis". This is pure nonsense.

your rights to practice your freedom of religion, ...
It's a right that we, the slayers of naysayers grant you.


I must correct you. Our freedom comes from God. The unalienable right to life, liberty (conscience) and the pursuit of happiness (to know, love and serve God) comes from Almighty God, not from any man.


Are you dead or imprisoned?


I am alive in Christ and I am free in Christ.


You want to prove to me your Holiness? (no) Give up everything you have and spend your life helping others. Seriously. Let's hear it Jythier, Lula, KFC....what job do you hold? Is it one that does its utmost to spread the Word of God or is it one that makes the most money for your family? Do you then rationalize, accountant boy, that you're taking care of your family?



Stop it with the personal swipes. No one of us has to prove anything to you, Ock.

Let's stick to discussing the substantive elements of this debate.







on Sep 22, 2007
If we hold Guiliani to those standards (and I am not saying whether we should or should not), I doubt there is any Catholic you would vote for.


Unlike, Guiliani, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas is an exemplary Catholic. He courageously stands up for Jesus Christ and the least of His brethren -- the helpless, innocent unborn child trapped in the womb. It all comes down to a matter of sincerity. In my opinion, any candidate, Catholic or otherwise, who votes for the evil practice of abortion is insincere and doesn't get my vote.

I mete it out this way: Better a sincere non-Catholic, then an insincere Catholic.
on Sep 22, 2007
Better a sincere non-Catholic, then an insincere Catholic.


Frankly, I would vote for a man who is not Catholic that believes in abortion, and also does not beleive that life begins at conception. If such a man (or woman) was a non-christian, that would not matter. I would be hard pressed to vote for any person (Catholic or not) that beleives life begins at conception and believes in abortion as well.


that is what I said, just not as succintly.
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