Constructive gadfly
I extend my hand to Fred Thompson for admitting he’s not much for church-going; Biden, too, has guts to say that his belief is his own business and no one else’s. The three top tier Democratic candidates seldom let an utterance go by without some reference to their God as though that would make them stand out among the crowd. It seems to me that the most important belief—an oath actually—is that they will defend the Constitution and show depth in democratic principles. One who is a nonbeliever or simply lukewarm to religion is really irrelevant; for voters should know that in time of crises, a divine power is inevitably invoked. Even a Hitchens on his death bed will supplicate if not God surely, some mysterious power—and I don’t mean the Antichrist—as in the proverbial there are no atheist in foxholes.
Comments (Page 3)
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on Sep 18, 2007
Sure, a lot of historians study the time and life of Jesus without thinking of Him as diety. The Jews usually have a lot of good to say about Him, but don't consider him the Messiah. The Moslems believe He was a prophet for his time and area.


This is true.

The exception is the Jewish Talmud (the learning doctrine), which is second only to the Torah itself, is hostile towards Christianity and contains derogatory statments regarding our Lord Jesus Christ.
on Sep 18, 2007
Mormons do not believe that Jesus is God in the same way that Christian's believe he is God. What they believe is that when Jesus died, he became a God and was given his own planet and people to worship him. (God is the "god" of this planet - and no relation to Jesus).

They believe that when they die, those who were good and faithful Mormons will become Gods themselves and be given their own worlds to populate and be worshipped in. This only relates to the men. Women in marriage may join their husbands in their new universe IF the husband calls them after he as become a God.

Much of the Mormon faith has been proved to have issues through DNA tests. The Book of Mormon tells that there were a tribe of Jews who left the middle east and sailed to the new world - landing in Central America - they began interbreeding with the people there and populated the Americas. DNA evidence shows that there is NO trace of Jewish or any other middle eastern / north african decent in any of the indiginous people anywhere in the Americas.

To me, Mitt Romney is suspect because he believes in Mormonism. He may be a good man - many Mormons live a good life and do many things to help others in need, but this is an issue I have with him. Honestly, if a Muslim were running for the Presidency - I would not vote for him on simliar grounds. Their basis for their beliefs and their convictions are suspect.

I know there are people who have trouble with Christians. Actually - I think they have trouble with what they perceive to be Christians. Bishop Sheen once said that there are millions of people who hate what they think is the Catholic Church. There are only about 100 people who actually hate the Catholic Church. As Christians - we have not done a stellar job of showing the world what a life guided by Christ can be. We all fall short of the mark (myself included), but we repent, get back up and strive forward again. Exactly what we are supposed to do.
on Sep 18, 2007
I agree with Bill and Lula on this one. I too believe it's important for a President to be Christian for me to vote for him. I'm not really into voting for the lesser of two evils.

I got a survey phone call the other day. The first thing they asked was what was the most important thing to me in voting for the next Prez. I said integrity. Well I guess that wasn't on their radar so they asked if I could give a different answer.

To me if I can't totally trust the candidate why would I vote for him/her?

I suppose it's possible to believe in Jesus without attributing divinity to him.[?]


yes it is. Actually outside of historic Christianity most don't attribute divinity to him. That was what the Council of Nicea was all about. The discussion back then was to once and for all determine his divinity or lack of. It was overwhelmingly voted that he was exactly who he claimed to be.



on Sep 19, 2007
At the feast of the dedication of the Temple, Christ clearly asserted His Divinity.
He also showed his humanity by angrily chasing away the money-changers from the temple.
on Sep 19, 2007
There are only about 100 people who actually hate the Catholic Church.
Dream on.
on Sep 19, 2007



There are only about 100 people who actually hate the Catholic Church.
Dream on.


Yea, if that is true, I must know all 100!
on Sep 19, 2007
There are only about 100 people who actually hate the Catholic Church.
Dream on.


well I don't know where he got that number but I understand (I think) what he's saying.

I'm no longer a Catholic (as in denomination) but I consider myself a member of the Catholic (universal) Church. The Holy Catholic Church really means one church universal. The CC as we know it today is a denomination. The two are easily confused. I don't believe the CC as in denomination is the "true" church.

I believe the historic Christian church is the Universal Church meaning from all walks and denomiations just like we saw in Acts. It has nothing to do with the CC out of Rome. That came later.

Is that clear or did I just confuse things?

on Sep 19, 2007
You sounded like Lula, only backwards.

Is that clear or did I just confuse things?
on Sep 19, 2007
A President as a leader of a nation HAS to have some Christian conviction. It is part of his leadership role. Any President who is atheistic or non-conformist is suspect and will be questioned about ethics and life-style. Remember Warren Harding?

Every great leader must lead by example and his Christian faith will be expected, unquestionably.LEaders must set an example and therefore, having faith in their country, must have faith in God.It may go against my grain of thinking but it is in the grain of the people.
on Sep 19, 2007
I sorta scratched my head and said, "What?" at BillW's comment about 100 people who actually hate the CC. DrGuy knows 100 and so do I and it's got to be accurate to say--they aren't the same 100!



KFC POSTS:
I believe the historic Christian church is the Universal Church meaning from all walks and denomiations


If this is so, then what exactly is the "one faith, one baptism", of this historic Christian church?

It has nothing to do with the CC out of Rome. That came later.


Later, when? What became of the Christ-established Church that began to function on the first Pentecost day? Did it cease to exist? If so, Christ must have been wrong for He declared that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church. Such a declaration would be a grave offense, for Christ, being Truth Personified was, is and ever will be free from error. The historic continuity of the CC from the time the Holy Spirit came down upon the Apostles and disciples, including Christ's Blessed Mother Mary, in the Upper Room until today, proves Christ to have been right when His Chruch through an unbroken chain of existence has existed, does exist and will exist until the consummation of the world.

just like we saw in Acts. It has nothing to do with the CC out of Rome. That came later.


Every one of the 264 Popes was a bishop of Rome. Pope Benedict XVI is the present bishop or Rome like all his predecessors, is Pope, not becasue St.Peter was bishop of Rome, but becasue he inherits the authority delegated to St.Peter, who became bishop of Rome about 42AD.

St.Peter gives evidence of his being in Rome in his epistle, 5:13. "The Church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, salutes you." Babylon couldn't be the ancient city of Babylon on the Euphrates River near Baghdad becasue that was destroyed (275BC)over 300 years before St.Peter's time. This was a time of Roman persecution and St.Peter was writing in code. It was "Rome" to which he referred when he informed the "strangers" in Pontus, Galatia, and elsewhere, to whom he wrote, of the immoral, the Babylonish place in which he was making progress.

This is all well documented albeit not in Scripture, but certainly evidential in the writings of the 4th Pope, Pope Clement, (88-97 AD) and the Church Fathers. The list of 11 Popes from St.Peter to Anicetus that was drawn up by St.Hegessipus less than a century after the matyrdom of St.Peter traces them as bishops of Rome.

There is also evidence regarding the 52 Caesars who reigned from Nero to Constantine in contrast to the historic data regarding the 32 Bishops of Rome, from St.Peter to Mechaiades, the Popes of that same period.

There was no one, not pagan, Jewish, Catholic or heretic who claimed otherwise for 15 centuries. It was only through the prejudice of Wycliff, Luther, Calvin and other Protestants lights who tried to make this Catholic historic fact fade into fable.

on Sep 19, 2007
You sounded like Lula, only backwards.

Is that clear or did I just confuse things?


Ha, ha..

Yes, I'm famous for confusing things...

You know it wasn't me though becasue it wasn't a "mile long" post!!   
on Sep 19, 2007
A President as a leader of a nation HAS to have some Christian conviction.


I tend to agree as this seems to have been the precedent up through the years...but is this changing?

There have been a couple of good debates concerning the secularization of the nation and although this topic wasn't the specific focus, I can't help but wonder if ever or how soon we might have a secular or atheist humanist as President, you know one who doesn't even pretend to have a Christian conviction as you say.
on Sep 19, 2007
If this is so, then what exactly is the "one faith, one baptism", of this historic Christian church?


Faith in Christ. Baptized in Christ. The same baptism.

Lula I'm not taking the bait on this one. If I did, I'd hijack the thread and that's not what this is all about. We've been over this a ton anyhow.

But going back to the original thought. I would want my vote to go to a President that had faith in the same God I did, the same God our country was founded on because I know that a man that follows God is a man who has a higher calling and authority. If he truly wishes to follow God, then our nation will be blessed as God blesses this man's decisions as he tries to follow Him.

Many may not like GB but I do believe he's a man of faith. I also believe our country has been blessed because of him.


I tend to agree as this seems to have been the precedent up through the years...but is this changing?


It seems to be Lula, so I'm with ya on this.



on Sep 20, 2007
I don't believe the CC as in denomination is the "true" church.

I believe the historic Christian church is the Universal Church meaning from all walks and denomiations just like we saw in Acts. It has nothing to do with the CC out of Rome. That came later.


hijack the thread


It's true, neither one of us wants a hijacking...it's just that it's next to impossible for me to let statements like this slide by without comment.

The point: "the historic Christian church is the Universal Chruch meaning from all walks and denomiations history" that you are describing goes back to 1517 not 33AD.
on Sep 20, 2007
BillW... Nice little mix of fact with fiction there. I wonder, do you believe everything you read in those trashy Anti Mormon pamphlets and website? They remind me a lot of some pamphlets I read about Christianity, written by Muslims. It was almost entertaining how you could have replaced the names of the Apostles in Jesus' time with those of Joseph Smith's time.

In other words, anti pamphlets are pretty much interchangeable, religion to religion.
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