Lesson from France

Published on November 22, 2005 By stevendedalus In Politics

It is apparent from the riots in France that the US has to begin thinking into the future of the current immigration ramifications and its ensuing generation. Essentially France’s immigrant influx of post WWII need for labor is now backfiring in the second and third generation of immigrants whose back-breaking labor is no longer needed, together with the acclimation of the native born youths who may consider themselves above dead-end toil — even if available — of their ancestors. Moreover, France’s inability to put together a thriving economy based on capital and labor that would strengthen the future of this hapless country seems lost among the left/right governance that has never quite shed the gossamer of “let them eat cake.”

Illegal immigration out of control here will come back to haunt us in the future when the second generation thereof become native born citizens and find grape-picking undignified. Though, unlike France, there will always be the need for labor — thanks to the entrepreneurs and the appetites of our consumer driven economy — there is a greater need to honor those who serve at home along with those in the service, which for some years has been an immense field of purposeful labor, education and advancement.

With few exceptions, the “maid of Manhattan” will always exist without advancement, but it is the duty of the nation to reward such work with incremental living wages because it is necessary that it be perceived as an honorable position. In our frenzy to advance our own kids through education and supportive cultural parenting, lest they suffer the fate of career meat-packers, we must with sensitivity recognize that there are necessarily basic occupations that keep this nation functioning — someone has to pick up the garbage and tar the roof over our comfortable homes.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

Comments

ParaTed2k

on Nov 22, 2005

Hey Steven, you make some pretty good points here. One of the universal facts in any society that doesn't assign a role to its citizens is the "2nd generation" syndrome.

Immigrant moves into "land opportunity" of choice, works his or her butt off to make a better life. Kids of said immigrant grow up living the better life. Kids and grandkids of immigrant can't imagine doing the grunt work the immigrant had to do.

Middle class guy looks around and knows he can do better. Gets FAFSA, Student Loans, or enlists in Ameri Corps or the Military; goes to college, gets a degree, lands an "entry level" mid management job, works up the ladder. His kids are young during the college and mid management "lean" years, but by the teen years, they are fat and happy.... they go to college, do "ok", and expect to continue lifestyle enjoyed at "daddy's"... sometimes even AT daddy's.

Rich parents, raise their kids in lap of luxury, set up trust funds so kids won't have to worry about money... kids, grandkids (and so on) consider anything less than CEO or politics "beneath" them.

So, who does the menial tasks? The kids of the immigrant that didn't "Move up"; the kids of the middle class family who are middle class because of two paychecks and a lot of over time doing meanial tasks; the college grad who found himself (or herself) "out of the fast track" on the corperate ladder, and picked up whatever they could... and their kids; or (of course) the 5th or 6th generation "working poor" who never envisioned more for themselves or their kids, but was never really up for the idea of perpetual welfare life.

The fact is, the "menial labor" will always be needed, and it will always be done. It will be done by those who settle for it as a temporary situation (constantly working towards something better when they aren't at work), and/or those who choose it as a way of life (either directly or indirectly), and just keep doing it until they are eligible for retirement, or die.

The other fact is (and this freaked me out when I saw it first hand), there are many people who want nothing more than what you and I call "menial tasks" in life. They want to go to work, do a job, and go home. I took a job in a factory once, to me it was something I accepted as a temporary situation... I thought that was what factory work was. When I got to know the other people on the line, WOW, what an education in the human-ness of being. I worked with people who actually loved their menial lives. Some loved there jobs, but most just did it for the money. It wasn't a lot of money, but it paid the rent and bills, with enough left over for the weekend.

Since then, I've known maids, basic EMTs, CNAs, hod carriers, groundskeepers, and many other laborers who not only feel content where they are, but wouldn't "move up" if they had the chance.

So who does the "basic occupations" that keep our nations running? More often than I think most of us understand... those who choose to; either temporarily or permanently.

Dr Guy

on Nov 22, 2005

France is a good lesson in what not to do. America I think, being a land of immigrants, stumbled into what to do. WHile there is no question of pockets of immobility, they are just that. Pockets. Instead, the second and third generations usually do move out of thedead end jobs and better themselves. So while there is a large Hispanic population, it is not a monolithic block. Such as France is experiencing.

DJBandit

on Nov 22, 2005

#1 by ParaTed2k
Tuesday, November 22, 2005

That is so true. Sometimes one never realizes these things till you come face to face with it. I should know, I have been doing "menial labor" for years now. Don't get me wrong, I have had a few jobs that were middle to high class worthy but my lack of college and better experience only made them temp jobs.

I admit I could try harder, though I will never figure out why I haven't done so. Well I kinda have now, I have the opportunity of a life time to get a job that will give me the skills I need to help me move up in the world. A chance to aim for that star in the sky that dreams about so much everytime you see your check for those few minutes before you let go and pay all you bills only to be left with enough for a tank of gas, a movie night and the best fast food you've tasted since 2 weeks ago.

I feel bad for those who have hard times in their own country and that coming to the US is a life time dream to be able to give their kids a chace at a better life. But when it means that my chance of providing a better life for my children is sacrifised for someone else who is happy with less than what I have now it makes me mad and so stronger immigration policies become part of my vocabulary.

bakerstreet

on Nov 22, 2005

Any cost you pass along to the employer is going to be passed on to the economy as a whole. You make a structured living wage, and the cost of living will just rise proportionally, and no one will really be better off. Such steps are a slippery slope, because what you break with the living wage you have to fix by mandating and controling something else.

In the end you take the "free" out of the free market and make worse problems than you had before. Now, a percent of the population struggles but have the ability to work their way to a different lifestyle. In a socialistic system that dictates wages, everyone pays the bill, so the economy as a whole is dragged down.

You misinterpret France's problems, in my opinion. Most of the people rioting were legitimate citizens. The problem is, even if you are a "citizen", unless you adopt French culture you are a second class citizen. Additionally, France has 10% unemployment rate, which many/most of those rioters are a part of. Try getting a job in a nation with 10% unemployment and a snotty attitude toward your culture.

stevendedalus

on Nov 23, 2005

But when it means that my chance of providing a better life for my children is sacrifised for someone else who is happy with less than what I have now it makes me mad and so stronger immigration policies become part of my vocabulary.

Justifiable view! Good Luck with your new lease on life.

The other fact is (and this freaked me out when I saw it first hand), there are many people who want nothing more than what you and I call "menial tasks" in life. They want to go to work, do a job, and go home. I took a job in a factory once, to me it was something I accepted as a temporary situation... I thought that was what factory work was. When I got to know the other people on the line, WOW, what an education in the human-ness of being. I worked with people who actually loved their menial lives. Some loved there jobs, but most just did it for the money. It wasn't a lot of money, but it paid the rent and bills, with enough left over for the weekend.

Excellent insight!

stevendedalus

on Nov 23, 2005

You misinterpret France's problems, in my opinion. Most of the people rioting were legitimate citizens. The problem is, even if you are a "citizen", unless you adopt French culture you are a second class citizen.

I wish you had shown this sensitivity to the victims of Katrina.

Any cost you pass along to the employer is going to be passed on to the economy as a whole.

I'm talking about modest raises; why don't you excoriate the outrageous profits that line the pockets of the affluent? And don't give me the crap that it all goes back into the company to better humankind.

stevendedalus

on Nov 23, 2005

So while there is a large Hispanic population, it is not a monolithic block.

Oh, it is pretty darn monolithic among the illegal; their kids are going to have a rough time assimilating. You can't use Miami as the norm. Batista's crowd had money in the '50s, giving them a hell of a head start and able to take care of those that followed. Remember the black Miami revolt because they felt the Cubans were taking away their jobs?

bakerstreet

on Nov 23, 2005

"I wish you had shown this sensitivity to the victims of Katrina."

maybe you missed the news that month, but Katrina was a hurricaine, not a concerted effort to squelch the culture of an immigrant people. If you are of the Farrakhan ilk and believe the hurricaine response was an effort to stifle "black culture", then you are sicker than I thought. I have a great deal of sympathy for people effected by Katrina. You and I seem to have a different definition of "victim" and who did the victimizing.

Regardless, equating the situation in France with a natural disaster is pretty sparing toward the French. I don't recall in recent history anyone telling people in New Orleans what they could wear in public buildings. Sad effort, steve, you aren't even trying.

"I'm talking about modest raises; why don't you excoriate the outrageous profits that line the pockets of the affluent? And don't give me the crap that it all goes back into the company to better humankind."

as opposed to the dream world where money held by the wealthy disappears into another dimension, effecting no one. Perhaps you should look into how banks work, where money that is invested goes. Unless you think the wealthy sleep on mattresses stuffed with cash...

Anyway, on what authority do you, your majesty, start shifting wealth? That's all imposed wage scales do, you know. Who, exactly, do you think in government is qualified and honest enough to wield that kind of power? You're beloved faux-socialists in Congress who keep a half a dozen big business lobbyists in each pocket?

You are the one offering up crap, steve. Yours is the world where the rich walk around with canes and monacles and sleep in beds stuffed with money. You are the one pretending that there are some champions of the social order out there somewhere that will be worthy to ride in on their white horse and tell us how to treat the poor.

In reality, you just have those who believe as I do, and those who pretend to believe as you do, and simply want a cut because they are part of the system. Charity is comfortable when you pass on a dime and keep 90 cents. The same people who would impose a living wage would simply tax it, convert it to coprporate welfare and send it back to the very industries that you are villifying.

Either way, if you think the wealthy will pay, you're dreaming.

Dr Guy

on Nov 24, 2005

Exactly! Not the same! And the illegal block is not monolithic either.

stevendedalus

on Nov 25, 2005

Anyway, on what authority do you, your majesty, start shifting wealth? That's all imposed wage scales do, you know. Who, exactly, do you think in government is qualified and honest enough to wield that kind of power?

The same kind you think the corporate hierarchy is qualified and honest enough to wield that kind of power. I don't need your lesson in capitalism; I joined a Christmas club as a kid, too, you know. But just as government needs reining in so too corporations--and you know perfectly well I've been saying that for years.

stevendedalus

on Nov 25, 2005

Purely monolithic? No. And neither is France. We have ghettos too, you know, and curtailment of opportunity.

bakerstreet

on Nov 25, 2005

"The same kind you think the corporate hierarchy is qualified and honest enough to wield that kind of power. I don't need your lesson in capitalism; I joined a Christmas club as a kid, too, you know. But just as government needs reining in so too corporations--and you know perfectly well I've been saying that for years."

You don't have to grant people power to make money for themselves. That is their right. Do corporations say "buy this product for the welfare of your society"? Are they elected for the purpose of overseeing society? Nope. They excel in a system we all take part in, and for that you villify them and claim they owe us more than the average person? If you invent the Next Big Thing, does the act require you to become the overseer of society? Why?

That isn't your money, that money doesn't belong to the poor or to society. That is money they made through legitimate commerce. You turn success into a crime. All you are doing is creating a situation much like Russia has to deal with. People will still be wildly wealthy, they'll just do it more and more under the table, and in so doing they'll pay LESS taxes and have less accountability.

Steve hates the corrupt corporations, so he'd make a system ruled by organized crime oligarcs.

bakerstreet

on Nov 25, 2005

lol... it boggles the mind. Making money yourself is morally equal to taking other people's and giving it away. What a strange sense of justice you have, Robin. Prince John wasn't a CEO, he abused his power as a governmental leader, tkaing people's rightfully earned money by force. Sounds like what you are suggesting.

stevendedalus

on Nov 28, 2005

Steve hates the corrupt corporations, so he'd make a system ruled by organized crime oligarcs.

Unruly comment, and not gleaned from my view.

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!