Musing Red & Blue

Published on December 13, 2004 By stevendedalus In Politics

Is it not shameless that Red voters are non-entities in Blue states, and conversely? And how in the world of common sense can one justify two senators in several states having but one congressional district?

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Comments

Dr Guy

on Dec 13, 2004

And how in the world of common sense can one justify two senators in several states having but one congressional district?

Because the little states were afraid that the big states would run rampant over them, and so they insisted upon it. And the wisdom of those founders have been born out in that the big states would do just that if given the chance. But the senate is the cooling pot that does not allow the rhetoric of the day to dictate bad legislation (well that is what it is supposed to do, altho I will admit that does not occur much these days).

Besides, it gives added weight to small states in electing the president, so that they will not be neglected in a race, as we saw this year.

Shulamite

on Dec 13, 2004

And if you'll notice, county by county, it's not that red/blue don't exist in the opposite state. They're just outnumbered. For instance, most of northern CA is Red. Some places in backwoods TX is still blue (because their great great granddaddy wouldn't have no carpetbaggers comin' round their place). There are, as weird as it may seem, some reds in MA. Probably, many many more mods in MA than that.

Blues congregate around Urban areas. I could go into motivations for voting blue, but that's some deep analysis that probably wouldn't be accepted anyway. I know why reds in suburban and rural areas are voting that way; they're moderately secure financially (even those who don't have a lot) but are DEEPLY concerned about the morals of the country. Every trip to the city gives them more reasons to vote against the way big cities vote. Sounds silly on the surface, but it's true. They don't want to value what those in the city value because, well, look at the problems the city has. They're opposite people with opposite realities.

The same was true in Roman times...

Dr Guy

on Dec 13, 2004

Blues congregate around Urban areas. I could go into motivations for voting blue, but that's some deep analysis that probably wouldn't be accepted anyway

You should blog it anyway. After all, what the parties are coming up with is not too bright. Yours at least would be insightful.

stevendedalus

on Dec 14, 2004

They don't want to value what those in the city value because, well, look at the problems the city has. They're opposite people with opposite realities.

Not only don't want; they fled and made the cities worse.

stevendedalus

on Dec 14, 2004

And the wisdom of those founders have been born out in that the big states would do just that if given the chance.

Still, to be fair it would seem that the least populated should have but one senator.

Dr Guy

on Dec 14, 2004

Still, to be fair it would seem that the least populated should have but one senator.

There is a little problem with that statement. The US Constitution and Declaration of Independance talks about Freedom, Pursuit of Life, Liberty, Happiness, equality, and protection from the state. In neither document is the word Fair.

Besides, wouldn't it also be fair to just ship some fo the people in the big states to the smaller states? It is getting crowded in California and Florida.

stevendedalus

on Dec 16, 2004

Small states are beginning to take in retirees--even Utah!--though its just the tip of the iceberg in competing with Arizona and Florida. Still, as I mentioned awhile ago in a blog these states don't really want the headaches of out of control populations.

Dr Guy

on Dec 16, 2004

And that is what makes America so great. People can choose small and rural, warm and crowded or (why?) cold and crowded. To each his own, so ND and SD never will rival Fla, so what? But they deserve proportional representation in the house, and equal representation in the Senate. Otherwise the senate becomes a useless part of congress.

stevendedalus

on Dec 21, 2004

Did you feel that way when Daschal was minority leader?

drmiler

on Dec 21, 2004

Reply #9 By: stevendedalus - 12/21/2004 1:42:45 AM
Did you feel that way when Daschal was minority leader

Pray tell what does this have to do with equal and proportional representation in the senate?

ParaTed2k

on Dec 21, 2004

And how in the world of common sense can one justify two senators in several states having but one congressional district?

This is one of my favorite questions about how our government works. It is also the best example of how our civics and other U.S. Government teachers are failing our young (and have been for quite some time).

You are looking at the House and the Senate as if the only difference between them is the length of their terms. The fact is, the Senators represent the state itself, while the Members of the House represent the people within the state.

Our Founding Fathers argued, debated, complained, and even came close to fist fights hammering out the details of what those of us living today would call the U.S. Constitution. Among the issues they were all but willing to smash each other's faces over was the question of representation. As Dr, Guy pointed out, the delegates from large states saw an advantage to representation based on population. The delegates from smaller states, of course, saw that as a problem and wanted to throw the whole idea of head count out of the mix.

So, after they were through with the name calling and questioning of each other's parentage, something really outrageous happened. The delegates from the small states ended up with their peanut butter on the large states' chocolate, while the chocolate of the large states was firmly impailed into the small states' peanut butter.

This led them to shut their yaps long enough to sample the tasty new treat they had just invented. In the silence of the revelry, somebody (I believe is was a delegate named "Reese", from Hershey Pennsylvania) said, "gentlemen, let's not bicker and argue! Who says we have to settle on either representation by population, or representation by state?

Why don't we have 2 Houses of Congress. We'll let those who represent the people of the several states be called, The House of...hmmmm... I know... Representatives"!

"Hey, Reese, great idea, and we'll have the other house represent the state itself... and we'll call it the Senate! "

"Why call it the Senate?"

"I don't know, but I just wrote it on the parchment in permanent ink, so I think we're stuck with the word....."

The rest of them excitely jumped up, and yelled (as well as they could with mouths full of Peanut Butter and Chocolate)... The Senate it is!!!

So, as we so clearly see from my accounting of that historical day....

The House of Representatives is chosen by popular vote and represent the people of each state, while the Senators would be chosen by the legislatures of the state they represent.

Of course, in a massive display of a lack of understanding of who should choose those who represent the state, the 17th Amendment was passed in 1913. This took the choosing of the Senators from the state legislatures and gave it to the people. I wonder what the reaction of the people would be if the states showed the same lack of foresight and decided that the legislatures should appoint the members of the House. Of course, the amendment would never have been ratified without the vote of those same legislatures. I guess, if put under the right pressure people are willing to give up all sorts of rights.... but that is a topic for another day.

Either way, that is how there can be 2 Senators, even if the state has only 1 Representative in the House.

For some reason, it always seems to come down to chocolate.

stevendedalus

on Dec 22, 2004

Or comes down to a Senate that lets the ruffians eat [chocolate] cake.

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