Caring Conservative Housewife

Published on October 7, 2004 By stevendedalus In Politics

When ever liberals express an interest in giving the disadvantaged a leg-up, why do conservatives regularly presume that it is hogwash being for the unwashed who are unambitious, and completely reliant on the government, and then add that liberals are implying that conservatives have no compassion? Other than perhaps unthinking extremists, the prevailing liberal slant on things is that the business world, particularly now, is primarily concerned with the bottom line and any costs that shrink the line is bad for business. Obviously — and other than peripheral values — a corporation or even a small business abhors its share of the payroll tax, increasing minimum wage, and higher taxes. This would be logical but for the reliance business has upon the endurance and viability of consumers. It does, after all, take a village to make a business.

Still, why does a conservative of non-commercial values, necessarily side with the faithful of unchecked capitalism? Why should a housewife who is pro-life usually side with these harsh bread and butter issues? Does she not care for the economic security of the household, does she not smile on her children and take care of them so they do not feel the pressures of going without? In attending church does she not join in prayer for the children here and of the world suffering from disease and hunger? Does she not cry for the child of the ghetto shot down in a gang war?

Could it be that she also believes, because all her needs are met by her own hand and that of her spouse, that this is magically possible for others by getting off their arses? Could it be that she believes that a ghetto matriarch, trying to hold a family together, is on an even plane with her and therefore needs no assistance if this woman just had the ambition to take on another job to boost the family budget but ignoring the devastation that would have on caring for the children at home? Could it be that because this caring housewife has a spouse who earns a living wage that with gusto meets the needs of his family that all wage earners, given their willingness, are financially equipped, at least in relative terms, to do the same for their families? If her answer is a tenuous yes, could it be that this caring housewife will have to admit to C’est la Vie! — there are winners and losers for whom the latter has no village.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

Comments (Page 2)

stevendedalus

on Oct 08, 2004

but in order to see God's Kingdom, one must give one's own riches to the poor.

Says it all, doesn't it?

WiseFawn

on Oct 09, 2004

What a wonderful blog, stevendedalus.

I grew up poor, so poor that I ended up in a hospital from malnutrition. But the neighborhoods we lived in were standard neighborhoods. Pretty much what we would call middle class today. There was a time that our water was shit off and we all had the stomach flu. When we were well enough, we would sneak buckets to the park to get water. We were not lazy, dirty losers.

I am considered poor now. I live in area that is considered poor. There is no way now that I could live in a neighborhood that would be considered middle class. The difference between my neighborhood and other ones is now striking. I have more to say, but I must come back.

Draginol

on Oct 09, 2004

Yes, but in the REAL world, it is conservatives that are the ones giving to the poor not liberals.

In terms of raw dollars given to charities, Republicans are much much more giving. Surely you've seen one of those surveys that pop up from time to time?

And again in the real world, Republicans are the ones paying for most of the taxes.

IT's easy for someone like Wisefawn to be "compassionate" because she doesn't actually have to do anything about it. For her and others on the left, compassion means saying kind things and advocating government programs. For those of us on the right, all too oftne, we end up having to pay for ineffective programs advocated by the left.

Why should Wisefawn and others like her care if a given well meaning program is a waste or not? It's not like she's paying for it.

I don't agree that liberals are more compassionate. In fact, I think the opposite is true. I think conservatives, in practice, are much more compassionate. They're the ones who pay most of the taxes for the government mandated compassion and they're the ones who tend to give the most to charity (church groups and other religious institutions are are central to private charity).

Empty platitudes and impotent complaining is not compassion. Actions that help the legitimately disadvantaged are.

Wisefawn says she's not a loser. I'm not going to say she's a loser. But I have asked her before and I'll ask her again: When was the last time you worked a full time job for more than a year consecutively? Have you ever worked full time for more than a year at a time at a paying job?

WiseFawn

on Oct 09, 2004

lol, yes, and I've answered that question. But you don't ever seem to hear the answer. Now, before I continue on with my story, cause I just love telling my stories, you know. My daughter rolls her eyes cause I have a tendency now to tell them over and over again to her.
But anyway, before I go on, I'd like to know where the polls are that say conservatives are the most giving. And I'd like to ask all conservatives a question. If you were in charge right now of a charity to help feed hungry people in the US, what criteria you would go by to decide who is worthy of food?

WiseFawn

on Oct 09, 2004

So anyway, in many cases, it would now take two incomes to live in the kind of neighborhoods I grew up in. And instead of going on, I'll just give you one of the quotes I love by Kahlil Gibran.

The angels know that too many practical men eat their bread with the sweat of the dreamer's brow.

Isn't that a great quote?

Draginol

on Oct 09, 2004

Wisefawn, are you working a full time job right now? Full time as in paid. What is it you do? Because last time we had this little discussion you talked about how you were starting 3 businesses but then refused to name any of them. People who work full time can't run 3 full time businesses.

In terms of charity - I would give any hungry person food no matter how foolish they are. No one should starve in the United States. But you don't tend to advocate for those kinds of programs.

I donate a lot to charity each year, Wisefawn. Beyond my taxes. I suspect I donate more to charity each year than you earn each year. Heck, Wisefawn, what have you done for charity recently? I mean in terms of giving in a truly practical way.

I fully support charities giving food, clothing and shelter to anyone who asks. But that's where it ends. What I don't support is cash to the poor (whether that be "aid" in various forms, "food stamps", whatever).

WiseFawn

on Oct 09, 2004

Are we really going to go this route again? I can point you to articles where you and others have demanded my income because I wrote about poverty and I have answered. One was in stevendedalus' blog list. Or I can repost my blogs and all comments made. But I'm not getting into a pissing contest. I sit down to pee. I'm guessing since you earn more money a year than I do, you do have the ability to give more money than I do to charities. Does that mean you are more caring, or better? If I give shelter to a few kids does that make me more caring, or better? If I dip into a savings of one thousand dollars to give a hundred to Feed The Children and you dip into a savings of ten thousand to give a thousand to Feed The Children, does that mean either of us are more caring or better?

We both give. We both have opinions on how to give.

Draginol

on Oct 09, 2004

Yes, Wisefawn, please feel free to point me to these articles and which response you answered them. Though I suspect a one line answer of "Yes, I work full time right now at a construction company as an accounts receivable assistant" or something would be quicker.

But every time we get into these discussions you seem wary of answering them. I remember when you claimed to be a business owner and when asked what the name of your company was you refused to provide it because it was "private" (which is simply bizarre IMO). No one had asked your company's financials. Just the name. I realize it damages your argument to have to admit that you've lived a large percentage of your adult life on government assistance in various forms. I don't begrudge that you receive assistance. What I do begrudge is when you try to claim that such assistance is not charity. Or when you try to take some moral high ground on these social issues simply because you're willing for others to spend money on your ideas without much care whether they're effective or not.

I am not trying to impugne your character, WF. I think you are a kind, caring person. I suspect if I met you, I would think you were a very kind, warm person.

But you have a luxury that I do not - you have the luxury to take positions that make you look like a compassionate person because even if those beliefs would lead to ruin, there is no consequences for you. Whereas for me, I care if those programs are effective because people like me pay for them.

And it's not just because I'm "rich" and you're "poor". It also has to do with labor. I work on average 60 hours each week. That means around 30 of those hours are spent working for the government in some form. I'm not wealthy because I inherited it. Or that I got handed some lucky opportunities. It's because I work long hours day after day year after year. So I am painfully aware of the hours I put in and resent having to spend hours each week working on half-baked ideas thought of by people who probably don't work full time if at all.

I am not trying to say I'm a better person than you. Such distinctions are meaningless. But I am not going to give into Stevenadlous's premise that liberals are more "compassionate" either. Because in terms of actually making a difference in the real world, conservatives are the ones who make a bigger difference overall than liberals because they do create more wealth, creat jobs, and by and large contribute more to charities.

WiseFawn

on Oct 09, 2004

I realize it damages your argument to have to admit that you've lived a large percentage of your adult life on government assistance in various forms.

Before I continue this discussion, I'd like to know why you think this? What made you come to this conclusion?

Draginol

on Oct 09, 2004

Some of your earlier posts. I've read your blogs since you began. may have deleted them but I read them. I have also talked to your friend at length in email. You Are you now denying that you've received goverment assistance?

EmperorofIceCream

on Oct 09, 2004

I think I said this somewhere else.... End world poverty now - kill the poor. And their whining so-called 'liberal' sympathisers. Do it today.

stevendedalus

on Oct 09, 2004

But I am not going to give into Stevenadlous's premise that liberals are more "compassionate" either.

That is not my premise at all. My contention is that conservatives assume this and constantly repeat it--as you have. As for the caring housewife I tried to show that indeed she possesses parallel feelings as all of us do, but in the end--as most of us also do--draw the line in the sand.

WiseFawn

on Oct 09, 2004

Ahh, yes. In some of my posts I freely admitted that I have. in fact, been on government assistance before. I certainly never implied that it was for most of my adult life. I also admitted to being a housewife for years. And I also asked for help about someone that I felt was stalking me and posting things in my blogs. Someone that made a comment asking you to write him because he had information about me he wanted you toknow. When I replied, knowing that he was corresponding with people here and that he was watching what I wrote, I responded according to the advice I had been given. Which is what I'll do now.
I've even shown you some of my work before. Interesting.

I have also talked to your friend at length in email.

Now I'll point you to the quickest one I can find. The one where you were saying things about female writers on here.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com/articlecomments.asp?AID=10727&s=1

WiseFawn

on Oct 09, 2004

Here, I'll save you some time....

Reply By: WiseFawn Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2004
My apologies for this on your blog, stevendedalus, and I do not know if you or Mr. Wardell will actually see it, but I need to say it. Mr. Wardell, I did not handle this well. Between the frustration and stress of a situation that I was attempting to take care of, I did not do this well. Being cornered in a blog with someone that had his own agenda and with some here, was an uncomfortable and unpleasant situation. I wanted to answer questions, but needed to be vague so that I could have the proof for something I needed. Now that I have been able to prove what I needed to prove, some of the stress is gone. It was frustrating seeing your comment. I do not want people to think that I would write it is OK to sometimes need assistance, but not be able to admit it if I did. By writing in my blog that I was not on assistance and then coming here to see your first comment, The 3 left of center females are presently receiving government aid., was too frustrating.
I have had times of needing help. As I have written, I needed help for my daughter and at one time, I myself was on Social Security and SSI. On my blog front, it says that I will probably write about abuse, agoraphobia, etc. Which at some point, I would have. It may seem silly to some, but it was important to me that some people do not think that I have no integrity, that I would be on assistance, write that is OK to sometimes need assistance and not admit if I were. That mixed with the stress, made me walk away after writing my gratitude blog. But at the time that all was insisting on knowing, I had to be vague for a reason. I have an income, Mr. Wardell. I work for a small company that is attempting to branch out on the Internet, along with my businesses and my sister and I living together, I may be poor, but I'm OK.

And as I said, I did not handle the comments on this blog well.

stevendedalus

on Oct 10, 2004

Extraordinary explanation, WF.

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