Just a Scratch

Published on August 28, 2004 By stevendedalus In Politics

“It was just a scratch,” he recalled afterwards, “I think one of our grenades hit a tree and bounced back.” [Bob Dole in recalling his first wound, for which he was not hospitalized and first Purple Heart.] Yet he belittles Kerry’s first for which he was not hospitalized.

Though I never could cotton to his cracker barrel conservatism and ugly digs shrouded under wry humor, I nevertheless, admired Dole for his role as a hard working senator and his service in WW II requiring a grueling comeback from a serious wound, earning him his second Purple Heart. Now there is even some question as to his Bronze Star citation that seemed to be cooked up by the War Department’s self-serving blurbs.

Is there no end to this madness?

Should I question the 370 Bronze Stars and 132 silver stars issued — many posthumously — to my comrades for bravery on Okinawa? That it was but a trumped up recording of heroism for glorified consumption on the home front? I could argue either way that these are overblown or fail to take in account tenfold the number of incidents that should have been noted in the records of merits. Would I not be pressing sour grapes? Or that I, too, should have been honored with a Purple Heart for the ten hours I was deaf and taunted with pressure headache on the front lines because of a concussion grenade that landed five feet from me as I approached a cave? Of course not — there was no red badge of courage — I thank my lucky star it was not fragmentary. I would have dishonored myself and my mates on the lines had I copped out and sent back to triage even for a while.

Swifboaters for truth out of political outrage, rather than out of a sense of honor for those who faced the enemy, do a disservice the all the unsung heroes gripped by the fangs of war.

How many of them I wonder would expect the gymnast, Paul Hamm, to return his gold medal?

Comments

kingbee

on Aug 28, 2004

working backwards, you have to remember the request hamm received wasnt from usa gymnastics (the american gymnastics governing organization); it came from usa gymnastics' international counterpart--fig or federation de internationale d gymnastique. theyre in france. need i say more?

i saw john oneill--without whom there would have been no swiftboatvets--on tv last nite (for the first time since he was on cavett more than 30 years ago). i musta been pretty zoned (ahahaah) or else im well on my way to senility because i recall him seeming to be an apparently intelligent guy (if significantly deluded). if my initial observation was correct, hes so obsessed its affecting his lucidity or he's deteriorating quickly. he seemed unable to grasp the literal sense of some questions, much less the implications of his own answers.

as to senator dole...my perception of the man is very close to the same as yours (hard worker, a bit sour, wounded in action). i liked the cornball stuff on occasion because it made him seem a little less boring. whether i agreed with stance on issues or not, i respected him for his integrity. i can't imagine whats motivating him to trash kerry's kerry's record--specially since by now independent witnesses and navy documents for any reasonable person to seriously question what the swiftboatvets are really for because they clearly have no connection with the truth.

this just occurred to me: maybe dole has been doing wayyyyyyyy too much viagra for his own--or anyone's--wellbeing. t

aconservative

on Aug 28, 2004

Stevendedalus

Here's something for you to digest.

Please visit - http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/kerryawards.pdf

It shows a copy of a formal "Request for Investigation" dated August 18, 2004 regarding Lt(jg) John Forbes Kerry about his medals and his anti-war activities. It appears that when he was bemoaning his comrades in Vietnam as worst that Genhis Khan, the guy was still in the Navy. And that's a no no.

So what do you say about that?

aconservative

ps - By the way I was in Okinawa too. I was with the Military Government in Chinen.

Lee1776

on Aug 28, 2004

The problem is not even ONE of the personnel on his boat has confirmed Kerry's first Purple Heart. Funny how Kerry keeps saying it but none of his ship mates have. In fact as of late the only person that seems to be standing by his side is Rassmen (where has been his band of brother after the DNC?). Did the incident really happen? Mr. Gardner (the person longest with Kerry on the boat), is the only person to comment on the account, saying there was no combat during those days. The worse thing to hit his Kerry's credibility is Kerry's own journal that has him bragging that they had not seen any action that whole week. All the AAR reports for that week have not been release, because Kerry refused an offer by the military for him to release them.

Lets not add the fact that he lied to Congress multiple times about the times seared into his head while in Cambodia. Even Kerry's campaign has publicly said he didn't tell the truth.

Then on his Bronze Star Rassman's account does not even match Kerry's. Kerry says he stayed to pull Rassman out of the water while all the other boats fled. Rassman says Kerry's boat fled and returned to pull him out 45 minutes later. The 45 minutes later actually matches the other 4 boat commanders at the seen.

O'Neill may have an axe to grind about being called a baby killer while he is still fighting a war, but just because he does, does not mean the other 250 people in the book or 64 other person that was in his squadron and on his boat while Kerry was there are not telling the truth.

After all the false statements (under othee too) that Kerry has done, I am more inclined to believe the Vets. If you want a list of proven false statements, I'll post them. We have gone over this multiple times in the Forum.

SSG Geezer

on Aug 28, 2004

I just wish they had stuck to the facts that are there real reason for disliking kerry.
The fact that he waited till the Viet Vets against the War were heading to washington to join their ranks so he
could put his face in the frontlines. Of course the stories he told certainly pissed them off too.
Tell me he wasn't a politician even then and I will laugh.

Lee1776

on Aug 28, 2004

Tell me he wasn't a politician even then and I will laugh.

Accually Kerry got out of Vietnam early with his questionable three Purple Hearts and then got out of the Navy early because he ran for public office (Which the UCMJ does not allow). It's strange how a person can get out of two military obligations within a year.

stevendedalus

on Aug 29, 2004

I am hesitant to base the truth on the fog of war--that goes both ways.

Zoomie

on Aug 30, 2004

"Mr. Gardner (the person longest with Kerry on the boat), is the only person to comment on the account, saying there was no combat during those days"

Know why Gardner saw no combat? Because, according to Gardner last week on Joe Scarborough's show, he was not on a single mission with Kerry for which Kerry got a decoration. Not one. So he's a witness to...nothing! Meaning he isn't a witness! And the same goes for most of the 254 SBVs. Very few were ever on a single mission with Kerry, and with the exception of Gardner EVERY SINGLE SAILOR who served under Kerry backs him, as does ex-Green Beret Rasmussen.
And should we run through the incessant contradictions of the SBVs? They submitted and endorsed Kerry for decorations; fast forward 35yrs, no they never really meant to do it. He was an outstanding officer; fast forward 35yrs, he was terrible (except, of course, for the little faux pas in 1996 when a bunch of the SBVs came out to support Kerry as a heroic vet). I mean, its gotten so pitiful, now the main complaint from the SBVs and their rightwing supporters is that Kerry was off by a couple of weeks on the exact date he was in Cambodia (if he was off - in fact, several investigations in the last month have pretty much all concluded there is simply no way to know for sure). What is known for sure is that O'Neill said several times on TV last 2weeks that there was absolutely no way ANY of the SBVs could have gone to Cambodia, because (1) there was no water route (WRONG there is, always has been), and (2) because if any SBVs had gone to Cambodia they would have been court-martialed, it was a no-no. Except, of course, that then that embarassing Nixon tape shows up (damn that man for being so paranoid he recorded everything...including his conversation with John O'Neill in 1973), you know, the one where O'Neill tells Nixon that he (O'Neill) made some trips in his SB to Cambodia... sigh!
So on one hand I have Kerry, all his crewmembers, several crewmembers from other boats (did you catch the interview with the guy from Thurlow's crew who said Thurlow was wrong about not being under fire? Or the one with the commander of the 3rd SB on Kerry's Silver Star mission, who said Kerry is telling the truth, which makes it two crews plus to a couple of embittered men?), many of the SBVs themselves (at least until about 6 months ago, when all their memories miraculously changed), and all existing Navy Records. On the other - 254 men who've mostly changed their story in the last 6 months (and at one of them has changed it twice in the last month!), who mostly never were within miles of Kerry while on an operational mission, who (with one exception) never served aboard Kerry's boats, who mostly are strong Bush supporters with lots of money donations coming in from rich GOPers...Gee, lets see...
DING! Liars to the right, truthtellers to the left!

Lee1776

on Aug 30, 2004

Know why Gardner saw no combat? Because, according to Gardner last week on Joe Scarborough's show, he was not on a single mission with Kerry for which Kerry got a decoration. Not one. So he's a witness to...nothing!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5797082/

You may want to read the refence again. Gardner says he was and if he was not I'm sure the other guy in the interview would of called him on it.

and all existing Navy Records

You mean released records. The Military has repeatedly offered Kerry to release them, but he keeps refusing. If he is so sure about everything, what is he waiting for? The records released have been Kerry's awards recommendations and those are exsteimly vague and are normaly not writen by anyone at the sight of combat. More then once I have seen people write thier own comments for awards. The worse offenders of this are officers that are political animals.

ShoZan

on Aug 30, 2004

Kerry's whole problem with his military record being attacked, because he banked on his record to be a candidate.

Come on, even if someone completely neutral ran for office on the basis of his military record, what you don't think in today's society it would not get attacked? Only in a freaking Dreamworld.

What gets me everybody is on about the first commercial, but won't even address the concerns that the second commercial raises, so what's up there why is all this focus on the first one, to draw away from the second one, if they discriminate and alienate the Swift Boat guys, than their second commercial we be scoffed as more lies from them. The second commercial is not a lie; Kerry is a politician who banks with whatever idea is most popular, more often than not, the wrong decision. Sen. McCain and others were POWs over in Vietnam and received severe punishments and torture to do what Kerry did for Free, what is up with that, hmmmm? Instead of answering it, they stick to their guns and only throw defamation and accusations at the Swift Boat Guys for the first commercial.

I don't know about other Vietnam vets, but family and close friends of family of my own, who served in Vietnam, served at least 13 months in Vietnam, some more, none less. Here's a question since Kerry is Vet who was injured in battle, he would, would he not, fall under being a Disabled Vet by V.A. standards, with shrapnel in his body, or does he not suffer from any of his injuries?

Come on people use the grey matter between your ears.

Lee1776

on Aug 30, 2004

Actually I was not going to vote for Kerry long before the SBV ads came out. Because I had already known about the Baby Killer speech, his stance on the first Gulf War and his horrible changing of issues when it helped him politically. He is the poster child of every shifty politician out there.

stevendedalus

on Sep 01, 2004

Here's a question since Kerry is Vet who was injured in battle, he would, would he not, fall under being a Disabled Vet by V.A. standards

I don't think so, if in medical opinon it is wise to leave the bullet or shrapnel undisturbed.

If critics are sour on Kerry because of his war record, it appears he would have been far better off running to Canada or simply joining the national guard. At least give him some credit for joining up as you do for Bush in the national guard.

ShoZan

on Sep 01, 2004

You miss the point, McCain suffered injuries in Vietnam, and has disabilities to show for it, shrapnel in a body even undisturbed causes problems for that individual, does Kerry have any problems from his injuries?
He has not stated whether he still suffers from these injuries, and I think with time and the body getting older, injuries become more painful and worse, take for example my father who had a back injury in Korea, over time it has only gotten worse not better, when he was young it was nothing but a little pain, now in his 50's he has arthritis and a degenerative disc disease in his back. Injuries just don't heal and go away, especially if it is shrapnel still in someone's body, which a Dentist at the V.A. Hospital when I went it after I got out to check on getting my wisdom teeth out, said that he still had shrapnel throughout his body, a pierced eardrum, and more, he was rated at 90% with the amount of injuries he sustained.
So the question still is does Kerry have a VA Disability rating, which anyone who has one is a Disabled Vet by the way, or in the very least does he still suffer from his injuries sustained in Vietnam?

I give him credit for serving, hell, the only ones I don't give credit for serving is anyone who ran, i.e. Clinton, because he made a choice, he choose not serve his country, while Kerry did, Bush made that choice to serve his country, but as there is this big stigmitism attached to National Guard in the U.S. they can't see past that. Even if Bush went over he would be doing what he was doing in the National Guard, and even that would warrant attacks from Bush's opponents on his military record, which in case you don't know Bush was, and still sort of is, if he keeps up his practice and keeps his body in shape, a fighter pilot. In fact, a very smart pilot from what I have gathered, he was able to remember the entire manual AND all the ins and outs of his aircraft, no small feat for pilots.

Still get past Kerry's war record, and what do you have, a politician through and through who sold out his comrades for Political power, than now says he supports the military? What will he sell out the military for this time? The man simply has NO INTEGRITY, none, there I said it. If he sells out his comrades from Vietnam for power, what will he sell the U.S. for?

stevendedalus

on Sep 09, 2004

Still get past Kerry's war record, and what do you have, a politician through and through who sold out his comrades for Political power, than now says he supports the military? What will he sell out the military for this time? The man simply has NO INTEGRITY, none, there I said it. If he sells out his comrades from Vietnam for power, what will he sell the U.S. for?

Harsh to say the least. Would you not question Bush's integrity for selling out his comrades who dutifully continued to fly the necessary practice runs, while he goes to Harvard business school?

ShoZan

on Sep 09, 2004

Harsh to say the least. Would you not question Bush's integrity for selling out his comrades who dutifully continued to fly the necessary practice runs, while he goes to Harvard business school?

And Bush is bad too for doing that.

So which one is the worst?

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