Constructive gadfly
Published on June 15, 2006 By stevendedalus In Politics
  On Okinawa for the first time Marines in the Pacific had to deal with significant numbers of civilians. Our platoon came upon a large cave whence emanated a burst of rifle shot. The platoon retaliated with dominant firepower for some thirty seconds. There was no return fire — just screams, groans and cries. Slowly several women and children emerged from the mouth. The Marines were aghast; the first team of the first squad cautiously — making certain the civilians were not booby trapped — approached the bloodied file. Another, a tiny woman, emerged carrying in her arms a mortally wounded child. Others followed, carried out or limping and crawling; in their midst was a Nip soldier, arms raised, bowing, pleading mercy. The civilians pushed him away and shouting angrily apparently for his desperate action leading to their bloody fate. In all there were some forty civilians, of whom eight were dead and most wounded whom the corpsmen attended.

The platoon was guilt-ridden throughout the day and cursed the coward who had fired from the cave. Obviously there is no correlation to Haditha other than the uptightness of men in combat. As an ex-marine, I find it incredible that Haditha was a deliberately crazed reaction to avenge a fallen comrade. There has been no reports, however, that rifle fire had ensued from the houses in question; and even if there had been Marines would have riddled the houses before kicking down the doors to size up the situation.

I fear, if indeed true as transpired, Haditha sumbolizes frustration among troops in a war gone awry when Marines not poorly trained reservists no longer conduct themselves with combat discipline and moral sense.

          

Copyright © 2006 Richard R. Kennedy All rights reserved. Revised: June 14, 2006.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

 


Comments (Page 3)
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on Jun 16, 2006
and having met one once


You really need to get out more.
on Jun 16, 2006
Why? Because I've been against the war from the start? I'm not some flower child who doesn't know the fog of war. Even if the Marines did go berserk as charged; I hold the poorly planned war responsible for placing our troops in such ambiguous zones of combat.


I actually respect your right to be against the war in Iraq (or any other war). It was not your anti war stance that set me off, it was the lopsidedness of your article. Sure, you added an "if" in your accusation of their guilt, but reading your article sure didn't leave much doubt that you think they are guilty...

and, no, I don't compare what you said to what Murtha said. However, that is how it did sound, which is why I retracted the parts I did.

Apology or "retraction" accepted, ParaTed.


thank you
on Jun 16, 2006
and having met one once. So, it is hard to not shout, "Innocent!"



You really need to get out more.


i dunno. someone's gonna have to go with him to screen people he appears likely to meet. i dont see nothing good coming from him meeting a single member of myriad groups with which he'll form an instant love connection.
on Jun 16, 2006
"It's deeper than that, Baker. I don't LEAN towards their innocence, I PRESUME it, which is what the law requires even for the most heinous of criminals. They are to be presumed innocent until proven guilty."


We speculate on the guilt or innocence of people all the time here, though. We grant them the obligatory "allegedly" or "if the evidence presented is true" and then we write our thoughts about what their guilt or innocence would mean. WHat you guys are proposing is that you can't do that for soldiers, ever.

Then we'd all better stop doing it about Democratic congressmen, too. Or ex-presidents or potential future female presidential candidates, etc., etc. If stevendedalus had crossed the line like Murtha did, I'd be right here running up his nose, too. He didn't.

The reason he was perceived to have is because he is of a different political faith. That's bullshit, imho. We tolerate "alleged ifs" from one side and not the other? I offered basically these same ifs about these particular soldiers in my blog on Haditha, but since I came to a different conclusion on the war as a whole, the reaction was very different.
on Jun 16, 2006
My vote? I believe this piece was as fair as any posted, and didn't read into it a blanket accusation of guilt. I think a lot of the attacks have been gut reactions to the author, not necessarily to the message.
on Jun 16, 2006
#39 by Gideon MacLeish
Fri, June 16, 2006 2:28 PM


I think a lot of the attacks have been gut reactions to the author


I am in complete agreement here.
on Jun 16, 2006
"Are you whining about fairness here, Baker?

Pfft. Since when did the left ever play fair? And when did you decide to nominate yourself as the JU champion of fairness?"


I'm not whining. I'm not policing anything. I am simply pointing out what someone who I think was being a jerk.

If you'd like for me to go through your posts and count the times you take people, like, oh, Lucas, to task for things they say I can waste the time, I guess. Someone with your adolescent penchant for baiting fights over nothing really doesn't have any room to talk, imho.

Who elected you kicker of puppies? You like to jab people as much or more than anyone. At least I pick times where it is valid to the topic at hand, instead of just trying to bait drama to pass the time.
on Jun 16, 2006
When I began to notice that the forums had basically devolved into a boring circle jerk 90% of the time. I value people like stevendedalus, kingbee, etc., because they provide different points of view and enjoyable discussions and outright arguments. We have far too few here now providing such, in my opinion.
on Jun 16, 2006
My comments to steven here were not insulting in any way, so Id appreciate you not lumping me in with those who were."


Eh, heh, huh? I never claimed you insulted steven. I would have sworn I was addressing your accusation that I was trying to be the JU fairness police or some such...
on Jun 17, 2006
You'd blame the entire Bush administration for the acts of a few individuals.
Yes, just as I had blamed Johnson and Nixon for a poorly defined war and Viet atrocities. But that doesn't imply that troops who have perpetrated atrocities are forgiven outright.
on Jun 17, 2006
Eh, it could be one of a number of people. The writing style looks familiar, but I know better than to point a finger, because the people I would guess within ten minutes would post their anonymous outrage that I would ever dare to think of them lurking here... (how's that for irony...)
on Jun 17, 2006
Eh, it could be one of a number of people. The writing style looks familiar, but I know better than to point a finger, because the people I would guess within ten minutes would post their anonymous outrage that I would ever dare to think of them lurking here... (how's that for irony...)


INterestng you see a JU good bye girl (or guy) over at Lucas, but you have been right before. I am just waiting to see if he is going, or if this is another DQ moment.
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