Abortion as Murder

Published on February 14, 2006 By stevendedalus In Politics

We need to change the perception of extremists that abortion is murder. If it were the case then performing doctors, midwives, and the men and women involved should be subject to life imprisonment or death in states where there is the death penalty. This kind of harsh justice — even minimal jail sentencing — obviously is not going to become reality, not even the pro-life wing would suggest it. Consequently the perception should be that women at a given time inclined to abort should be extended the realistic latitude that she is not ready financially, emotionally, or of age to be a mother. The extremists who perceive it as murder should desist from interfering with contraceptive tools and education that would prevent a woman from having an abortion altogether, but at the same time should propagate adoption, as a viable alternative, in addition to rewarding the natural mother, provided designated adoptive parents exist, in lieu of adding to already crowded orphanages.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

Comments (Page 2)

stevendedalus

on Feb 19, 2006

Personally? I would see the abortionist (the Doctor's that actually performed the procedure) put on trial for murder and the "mother" up on charges of aiding & abetting a felony (at the least), consipiracy to commit murder and murder. This is assuming that abortion is no longer legal and killing the unborn child is again a crime. Since it is, currently, legal, then it is not *technically* murder.

Logical for sure.

So, yes, I believe that anyone choosing to abort a child, is choosing to murder the child, even if the law currently doesn't describe it as such.

Not so sure of this "logic." At least allow one who aborts as less "murderous" than one who drops the new born in a dumpster.

bakerstreet

on Feb 19, 2006

"Not so sure of this "logic." At least allow one who aborts as less "murderous" than one who drops the new born in a dumpster."

If, and I know it isn't reality, but IF we accept that a fetus is a living human being, what would be the difference?

stevendedalus

on Feb 19, 2006

unborn baby

A loaded phrase.

But I had to fight to keep him. She wanted to abort him.

I trust you were sensitive and held her hand throughout her reluctant ordeal.

stevendedalus

on Feb 19, 2006

Obviously the topic discussed here is semantics, not reality. It seems that abortion does not mean murder but rather preventing transit life.

bakerstreet

on Feb 19, 2006

"Obviously the topic discussed here is semantics, not reality. It seems that abortion does not mean murder but rather preventing transit life."

But would that be so if the courts didn't impose the idea of abortion as a right? If people were allowed to vote, and it was adopted as murder, would you then accept that it is murder? It may not be as much semantics as you would believe, if many get their way.

ParaTed2k

on Feb 19, 2006

Obviously the topic discussed here is semantics, not reality. It seems that abortion does not mean murder but rather preventing transit life.

It has nothing to do with semantics. The word Murder has a definition, it isn't symonymous with killing, self defense, hunting, accidental death, or even death itself. Semantics is when two terms mean the same thing and people argue over which synonym is more fitting.

If abortion were illegal, it would be murder, since it isn't, it can't be considered murder (at least by the courts).

Chaos Manager

on Feb 24, 2006

Murder requires a willful intent to kill. Not accidental death. WILLFUL intent. Last time I looked, no one is holding a gun to a person's head and forcing them to have an abortion. No one is holding a gun to the doctor's head and forcing him to kill the child.

So, if (and only if) abortion is deemed illegal, then aborting a child before birth would be murder. It would require the willful, premeditated intent to end the life. That, as far as I'm aware, qualifies as murder. Not manslaughter, vehicular homicide, self-defense, accidental death or plain old death.

The explicit intent to end the life is present when ever someone makes the decision to abort.

Moderateman

on Feb 24, 2006

19 by stevendedalus
Sunday, February 19, 2006

Obviously the topic discussed here is semantics, not reality. It seems that abortion does not mean murder but rather preventing transit life.

well then by that rule Killing someone is not murder either, but preventing the further transition of someone extending their life span.

stutefish

on Feb 24, 2006

Okay, go ahead.

Change my perception.

DJBandit

on Feb 24, 2006

Wow, this is a very touchy subject, one I never sat down and tried to see on which side I would fall in Till I began to read debates on it on this site.

One has to keep in mind that the child inside the woman can be considered a lifeform while at the same time it may not be. One also has to keep in mind that this child is inside another person and thier life is caught in the middle of the decision. How does one define life and protect it without taking away the persons right to chose what to do with thier own bodies, even though we already do that by not allowing people to , legally, use things like illegal drugs that can kill them or hurt them at the least. Many this is like trying to create a warp capable ship, all the veriables one must consider and calculate before making it possible.

ParaTed2k

on Feb 24, 2006

One has to keep in mind that the child inside the woman can be considered a lifeform while at the same time it may not be.

How can something with DNA and a metabolism be anything other than a lifeform? How can a lifeform with DNA consistant with that of Human Beings be anything other than a human being?

Unless someone can demonstrate that a fetus has neither, then by biological fact, a fetus IS a human being. Any other definition twists the fact for no better reason than political, social and other purposes of convenience.

stevendedalus

on Feb 26, 2006

If abortion were illegal, it would be murder, since it isn't, it can't be considered murder (at least by the courts).

By this logic before Roe abortion was murder? And when it is overturned it will again be called murder? I think one could still consider it a matter of symantics, since on both sides there is a real problem in defining a fetus wrenched from the womb.

stevendedalus

on Feb 26, 2006

How can a lifeform with DNA consistant with that of Human Beings be anything other than a human being?

Is masturbation, since a sperm has DNA, also murder? Is it not a choice one makes in wilfully disposing his or her DNA? And should we consider the woman morally correct by taking it in the ass or mouth?

ParaTed2k

on Feb 26, 2006

Steven:

No, before Roe Vs Wade each state had laws concerning abortion. Included with those laws was the definition of the crime being committed. As far as I know no state defined it as murder. So in answer to your question, no. However, I will add that no state considered the biological definition of human being or even life itself.

Steven:

Sperm has DNA, but it has DNA consistent with the male who produced it. Sperm is not and organism, sperm is a cell of an organism.

A fetus however, has DNA identifying it as a Human Being (Homo Sapien). It also identifies the fetus as a seperate and distinct organism from the mother or the father whose reproductive cells contributed to its creation.

Arguments that attempt to equate cells, tissues and organs of an organism with an organism are either ignorant or just plain silly. Hopefully you were trying to be funny here. ;~D

stevendedalus

on Feb 27, 2006

Hopefully you were trying to be funny here.

Perhaps funny but more bitingly uncouth!

No, before Roe Vs Wade each state had laws concerning abortion. Included with those laws was the definition of the crime being committed.

And the definition implied taking a "life" illegally.

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