In #231, Sinperium correctly equated Hitchen's Atheistic beliefs and desire for an Atheistic society with Lenin's, Mao's and Robespierre.

 

Hitchens was wrong and easily dismissed because totalitarian belief as is Communism is the very opposite of the advocacy of human freedom, within the limit of Divine Law, which the CC has proclaimed thoughout the Christian ages. Such freedom stems from the principles of natural rights, unalienable rights, with which the CC holds man to be endowed by his Creator.

This principle, echoed in our Declaration of Independence, when strictly followed, leads to "government of the people, by the people", and not to "totalitarianism" such as dominated the Soviet Union since 1917 under Lenin, Stalin and as presently dominates China, North Korea, N. Vietnam and Cuba.

Furthermore, as noted in dictionaries, the term "totalitarian" is of political rather than of religious significance.

 

Unfortunately you just proved Hitchen's to be correct by stating "within the limits of Divine Law". That is exactly what he is talking about. The concept of "Divine Law" takes away certain freedoms from the individual.

 

 

 

Smoothseas; It goes beyond that. Hitchens stated that the concept of a supreme being also empowered such people to do and say anything in the name of such power … without the need to justify anything to anyone, even themselves … much as it still is today.  So it is a two sided sword; the loss of their individuality and the authority to do anything they desire. This sounds pretty damn totalitarian to me, for sure.

@Boobz...I'm pretty stunned actually.  You go an a rampage that all people religious are total asses, your partner comes on with an occasional cynical smartass put down--and I'm a troll?

This thread wasn't, "Listen to atheists rant about how bad Christians suck."

You make off-hand comments with your facts wrong, misspeak yourself and make broad statements out of resentment and if you don't get an affirmative  reply, "it's trolling".

Trolling is more like when you weren't in the conversation to start and then jump in to make a sardonic and personally insulting comment to "get your score up".

Go back and read everything you have posted, insert "atheist" where it says "religious", "Christian" or "RCC" and tell me how you would respond.  Simply getting contradicted or confronted with an angle you don't want to examine gets you in a tiff.  I don't think you could handle the reversed position at all.

It's plain and simple--you're here to rant.

That one is fairly obvious. I think I learned that concept as a kid, probably while I was sitting in church.

I know, I just couldn't think of anything else at the time, hahaha. I think Sinperium needs some valium or something. As to commandeering another post ... when do I get my cut, hehehe?

He simply needs to do some research on Hitchens, Mao, and Lenin to see why putting them in the same boat doesn't hold water.

I think you guys have an issue with associative thinking.

I'm not calling Hitchens Mao or Mao Hitchens or anything else.  I'm pointing out that every person who thought they could bring about an "age of enlightenment" by creating an organization to rise up to empower it brought instead the opposite--no matter how well intended they were.

There's an inherent problem with the approach of making people think like you and believing that your ideas are so correct that you're entitled to.

Atheists aren't going to save the world by superior thinking.  Many are following the exact same sort of thinking of some of the examples I gave--just dressed in a different philosophy.

So far what I primarily get from you guys is, "Once stupid people like you religious nutjobs are removed, smart people like us can make the world right.".

There's quite a bit of hubris there.

Sigh, same old, same old here i see....

 

Denying human nature will get you no where. 

Dont try to reason Sinperium, their "logic" blinds them to the obvious.

 

BoobzTwo obviously is closed minded.  No amount of "proof" will work, because she will simply disregard/explain/ignore it. 

 

 

Atheism is the absence of religion/god.  Just like darkness is the absence of light. 

 

And in my opinion... the absence of light will get oneself confused and hurt in the long run...

Without darkness there can be no light. Sight works by contrast, pick whatever color you wish, if that is all you see you can make out nothing. Opinions are the same way. Everyone has an opinion, beliefs; but the type does not really matter. If you cannot even let yourself see why others believe as they do, then you truly see nothing at all. Just the blinding light of your own beliefs. And even once the universe ends if your beliefs turn out to be right, you still have nothing to be proud of. If you're of the believers, then you failed the test of your existence. And if you're not, you failed to see anything during the one glimpse of the universe given to you by astronomical chance.

I do not believe in god, but I know that faith and perhaps even religion of itself is no threat. It is dogmatism, the self inflicted blindness to the ways of thinking of fellow human beings, that is threatening. Its practitioners cannot even see grey, let alone color. If peace on Earth is truly desired by people of all faiths and lack there of, we must stop caring about the faith of others, and instead about the excessive strength of our fellow believers convictions. Then... maybe... we may have a chance.

 

Which has nothing to do with Hitchens. He believed that religion should not just be tolerated but it should be criticized as well. It is not my fault that people such as yourself do not take criticism well. Maybe that is something inherent in people who cede their beliefs to some higher authority? Or maybe it is just you? I suspect it is just you since most religious folk that I know deal with it quite well.

I'm not trying to make anybody think like me. Nobody thinks alike. Haven't you figured that out yet?

Nobody is capable of saving the world. Haven't you figured that one out yet?

Seems like the US vs. THEM mentality is invading your head again. Get a grip.

I agree. Religion itself is not a threat. It can be a very good thing in most instances. Seems to me the problem is governments and institutions which manipulate the religious to achieve political goals. Many people blame religion on wars for example, however when you look at things closely more often than not there are political decisions which led to the conflict and religious folk are simply "recruited" to bear the blood.

I think the word "proof" needs to be defined before you make a statement like this don't you think. If you have offered some proof of something please reiterate for me. But I would suggest you research the word "PROOF" first though. I like this one myself; “the quality or condition of having been proved” … works for me. Speaking of disregarding or ignoring things ... that is the Christian modus operandi ... "god works in mysterious ways my son, no explanation necessary hahaha". Well I am still waiting as we all have been for 2,000 years now. Some proof please instead of jawing about it over and over again. Are you trying to make the argument that Christians are not closed minded people, a joke right???

Good points but not in the near future I am afraid. And is this not what we have always done to ourselves whether or not it is achieved through religious or secular dogma. This seems to be the will of the mighty and powerful and they are adapt at pulled the rug out from under the rest of humanity itself … repeatedly. The Vatican is nothing more than a corrupt government, one of many we have to deal with including (especially) our own. The people although far from innocent, are always made to suffer from this tyranny. The secularists need to rework their governments (somehow) … and the religious folk should oppose the RCC at every crossing to take their religion back into the heart and minds of the true believers. But instead we sit here and play these word games and pretend we are accomplishing something, go figure. This should not be a battle between atheists and theists … but it is always made out to be so and by design. We keep butting heads … and the elites just keep running the show with impunity and a complete disregard for their (or other) people … who are too deceptively engrossed to actually try to change something for the better.