Constructive gadfly
Published on September 14, 2011 By stevendedalus In Philosophy

I don’t have a problem with atheists — each to his own comfort level — nonetheless, it is ridiculous for one of that inclination to get rattled to the extent that others of belief are denied their comfort. Atheism by definition is free from religion. Theists are free to believe as they see fit; atheists should look upon these  " misguided" as pathetic but have the right to the "wrong" path. If, however, atheist take on the passion of "religion" in their belief that there is no God, they in reality are in the business of propagating their non-faith as feverishly as the old Marxist line. In this respect they are as trapped in "belief" as the rest of us pathetic  old fools. They should therefore lobby for a limited currency series that states "In "God we do not trust," or a postage stamp that shows a black hole with the inscription "Godless."  


Comments (Page 1)
on Sep 16, 2011

Their "non-faith" is a faith.  Since the existence of God is unproven and the non-existence is also non-proven, they have to accept on faith there is none.  That others believe there is appears to be a threat to their core beliefs, so they become as bad as a proselytizing religious person.

on Sep 17, 2011

Dr Guy
Their "non-faith" is a faith. Since the existence of God is unproven and the non-existence is also non-proven, they have to accept on faith there is none.

Claiming that atheists “cannot prove that God does not exist” often relies upon the misunderstanding that atheists claim “God does not exist” and should prove this. In reality, atheists merely fail to accept the theists' claim “God exists” and, hence, the initial burden of proof lies with the believer. If the believer is unable to provide good reason to accept the existence of their god, it is unreasonable to expect the atheist to construct a disproof of it — or even care much about the claim in the first place.

 

From: Atheism is Based on Faith?
Author:  


on Sep 17, 2011

Atheism by definition is free from religion.

Atheism doesn't concern itself with religion but rather the rejection of a belief in deities. Religion is merely the packaging of worship and is therefore superfluous to atheism.

atheists should look upon these  " misguided" as pathetic

Why should atheists do that? What purpose does condescension serve? To have no belief in dieties does not require judging those that do. I don't need to hate nor deride chocolate in order to like vanilla.

If, however, atheist take on the passion of "religion" in their belief that there is no God, they in reality are in the business of propagating their non-faith as feverishly as the old Marxist line.

What you are describing here is, at the core, egoism/narcissim not atheism. You could replace the subject of atheism with any other subject and draw similiar conclusions.

The need to feverishly propagate ones own position is egotistical. If you have a problem with that then your problem is with egoism. But all you're saying is that you believe some atheists are egotistical/narcissitic. I agree. Some are. But that says nothing about the merit of the aetheist position itself.  

So in that case atheism is merely the vehicle of the ego.

They should therefore lobby for a limited currency series that states "In "God we do not trust," or a postage stamp that shows a black hole with the inscription "Godless." 

Why would an atheist spend their time rejecting something they dont believe in? As by definition they dont believe in it so what is there to reject? If you are finding yourself arguing with "atheists who are religious in their disbelief" then you'd do better to realise that you are not arguing with an atheist per se but rather you are enagaging an ego defending a positionality.

In that sense neither you nor they can ever "win" and you're much better off disengaging.

For even if you were to logically obliterate them their ego would likely rebound in the even worse form of the persecuted victim mentality. If they destroyed your argument, you lose. And if neither gets their point across then all you've done is feed the ego attention which is all it often wants anyway.

Enagaging "feverish" types is literally a waste of time. 

on Sep 23, 2011

ForkedNives
Atheism doesn't concern itself with religion but rather the rejection of a belief in deities. Religion is merely the packaging of worship and is therefore superfluous to atheism.

Rejection of a belief is merely the belief that it does not exist.  Atheists may spin it (and they feel a need to since they are distancing themselves from religion), but the fact remains.  Their religion is the belief that god does not exist.  it is not founded on any solid facts, just beliefs.

on Sep 28, 2011

Rejection of a belief is merely the belief that it does not exist.

 

I disagree. Absence of a belief is not the same as a contrarian belief just as dark is not the opposite of light but the absence of light.

Atheists may spin it (and they feel a need to since they are distancing themselves from religion), but the fact remains.

I think the spin comes from the religious person who attempts to create the illusion of a diametrical position in order to use relativistic terminology like "the fact remains" when in fact there is no fact.

Their religion is the belief that god does not exist.  it is not founded on any solid facts, just beliefs.

 I consider religion to be more than just a belief. It's a series of practices. Wikipedia describes it well enough for me:

The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect. Most religions have organized behaviors, including clerical hierarchies, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, congregations of laity, regular meetings or services for the purposes of veneration of a deity or for prayer, holy places (either natural or architectural), and/or scriptures. The practice of a religion may also include sermons, commemoration of the activities of a god or gods, sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trance, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture

Source: Wikipedia - Religion

I dont know of any athiest who participates in an Athiestic religion because there is nothing to venerate.

 

FTR: I'm not Christian but nor am i an atheist.

 

on Oct 04, 2011

ForkedNives
FTR: I'm not Christian but nor am i an atheist.

You took the time to respond in length while my responses were short and ambiguous.  And I agree with you for the most part. Most religions are both a set of beliefs and a set of actions.

However, atheism is a set of beliefs.  it is not the absence of belief.  So it is not the same as dark and light.  Calling it a religion may be a bit much, but it has many of the trappings of a religion. 

for the vast majority of Christians and Atheists, what each decide to believe is less important than how one acts.  But for some in both camps, the beliefs of the other are a threat to their own dogma, and so they react violently (through words or a few cases, actions).

That was my point.

on Nov 19, 2011

Dr Guy
Their "non-faith" is a faith. Since the existence of God is unproven and the non-existence is also non-proven
I think you are just buying into a false premise here Doc. If nothing is proven to exist … then there is no burden of proof to consider beyond that point. Only an idiot would even attempt to try and disprove something that wasn’t proven to exist in the first place ... Welcome to the illogical world of religion, hahaha … and politics.

 

I agree with ForkedNives here, there is no atheist ideology at play, no atheist agenda, no atheist rituals and no atheistic superstitions.

on Nov 19, 2011

ArturoThomas
Reply #7   ArturoThomas
... the great JuJu at the bottom of the sea, hahaha, I like that. Logic will not dent their armour and proof is meaningless to people who don't need any proof themselves, hehehe.

on Nov 22, 2011

I just found your article and would like to chime in. 

Atheism by definition is free from religion.[/quote]

I disagree. 

Atheism is a prideful denial of Almighty God. THeir religion is Atheistic Humanism which is basically a set of beliefs and values that puts man as the center, origin and apex of all things. The Atheistic Humanist creates his own world and he is the master of his own self, complete without God. By the mastery of the sciences, industry, and technology, given time, there is nothing, absolutely nothing the AH will not be able to control and he is his own god. 

If, however, atheist take on the passion of "religion" in their belief that there is no God, they in reality are in the business of propagating their non-faith as feverishly as the old Marxist line.

I agree. 

It was the militant Atheistic Humanist who caused that prayer be removed from all public schools as well as the Ten Commandments in public places. It the militant Atheistic Humanist that clamors that the words "under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance and our coinage. It is the militant Atheistic Humanist that wars against Christmas and that all things of Christianity be removed from sight.

..........................

[quote who="ForkedNives" reply="2" id="2997792"]In reality, atheists merely fail to accept the theists' claim “God exists” and, hence, the initial burden of proof lies with the believer.

first, you'll never convnce me that it's simply atheists failure to accept the theist's claim that God exists. Atheism is a deliberate one-sided affair...Atheist's make a decision against God.

Second,  No one believes that the existence of God is capable of verification by methods of science. But God's existence is capable of verification by reason and science doesn't tend to the denial of this in properly instructed and well balanced minds. 

 

 

 

 

on Nov 23, 2011

lulapilgrim
Atheism is a deliberate one-sided affair...Atheist's make a decision against God.

No it is simply the lack of belief in dieties. It is in no way a religion by itself, however there are religions which are atheistic in nature. It is not a decision against anything because you cannot be against something you don't believe in to start with.

 

lulapilgrim
But God's existence is capable of verification by reason

Quite the contrary. Reasoning involves establishing and verifying facts.Gods existence is ascertained through faith not reasoning.

 

lulapilgrim
properly instructed and well balanced minds.

You mean brainwashed and/or indoctrinated.

on Nov 23, 2011

lulapilgrim
t was the militant Atheistic Humanist who caused that prayer be removed from all public schools

Actually it was a Jewish man who took the school prayer issue all the way to the supreme court because his son was taunted by christians because he didn't participate in school prayers.

As to the pledge of allegiance a christian sect called the Jehovah Witnesses was the first group to challenge the pledge in public schools. They consider it to be idolatry.

You love to blame these things on what you perceive as "the other side" when in fact many of these issues came to be because of the zealotry of your own kind.

BTW: Did you know the pledge of allegiance was written by a socialist?

 

 

on Nov 23, 2011

Smoothseas, If logic, common sense or proof were to be counted on here this discussion would not be taking place. The RCC has to have its enemies to function so they have made the whole world their enemy with their pompous attitudes and unmatched superiority over everyone else on the planet. It might be one thing if Christianity vs. science was the theme … but it is not. The bulk of the problems are religion vs. religion and sect vs. sect as science doesn’t pick sides … it is what it is … the expression of human knowledge as an understanding of the real world … not the imaginary one religious folk pretend to live in. At some point in evolution, I would like to think we will reach a time where superstitions and folklore (traditions) are removed from the equation of life altogether.

As you stated, when a thorough look is made into these presumed religious ‘injustices’, one invariably finds The Church buried to the eyeballs in the controversy which normally involves religious prattle and exhibitions in public venues and especially the public schools.

I am an atheist (probably the one in question?) and am amazed daily with the accusations of how my “atheism” is some kind of faith or pseudo religion of sorts … somehow. Logic bears its own truth via the scientific way (proof) which is what an atheist stands for ... the real world truth. Just because theists have an agenda … it is falsely assumed that everyone must therefore have an agenda too??? And as expected, in order for me to find out whatever my agenda is … I am required to ask the religious folk, hahaha. The world of make believe seems to attract children and zealots alike, humm.

on Nov 23, 2011

BoobzTwo
The bulk of the problems are religion vs. religion and sect vs. sect

I personally don't think the root of most problems are religion vs. religion etc. I think people (and governments) use religion as a tool to solve their "problems". It is used as a control mechanism. Dictators use it to control their populations, politicians use it to pander votes in order to gain positions of power, Countries use it to wage war in order to gain access or control of other countries natural resources, individuals use it to discredit others, etc.

BoobzTwo
At some point in evolution, I would like to think we will reach a time where superstitions and folklore (traditions) are removed from the equation of life altogether.

Unfortunately I don't think that will happen. The ruling class knows history quite well and will not let religion die because they know how effective it is in controlling the general population. They will simply use the herd to rewrite the history and science books to dumb down the population.

 

 

on Nov 23, 2011

Smoothseas
Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 10
Atheism is a deliberate one-sided affair...Atheist's make a decision against God.

Smoothseas
No it is simply the lack of belief in dieties.

And this lack of belief in Almighty God is a decision that is made ..a deliberate decision. 

Men do not have to persuade themselves that there is a God. They have to try to persuade themselves that there is no God. And no one yet who has attained to such a persuasion has been able to find a valid reason for it. Men do not grow into the idea of a God; they endeavor to grow out of it.... this is what I meant  when I said Atheist's make a decision against God.

All of us, every one of us, is either for God or against Him.   

 

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